Why No Law Suit...............

[Samuel Gompers]

Although I’d personally love to see Paul and Hari’s ‘feet be held to the [class action] fire,’ not only is it unlikely but even if it happened it wouldn’t gain the aggrieved much: the darn lawyers get all the money and the Elio boys did too great a job squirreling it away.

The best we can do, going forward, is to constantly monitor what Paul Elio, Hari S. Iyer, Connie Gresham, and Joel Sheltrown are ‘up to.‘ When they pop their heads up seeking new investors and/or subscribers or ‘reservationists,’ we need to remind the unwary of their dubious histories, and allow the inexperienced to make a proper decision.

Capes might get some ‘traction’ by contacting that Phoenix (Paul’s home town) Investigative Reporter that got some ‘mileage’ earlier with EM failing to make obligated refunds.

AND, just for the record: All you that think by signing an agreement for a ‘spot in line’ results in absolutely sufficient ‘consideration’ to make a legally binding and enforceable contract have no idea what you’re talking about. It remains to be seen if ‘spots’ in no line, but for the Principals possible malfeasance and definite incompetence is sufficient consideration for the $100 to $1000 RESERVATIONS. Surrounding it all, there will always be questions of ‘where all our money went,’ and more importantly when did Hari and Co. know or reasonably could be expected to know when ‘the game’ is up?’ They took reservations for a very long time and, under one of their shells, enticed more suckers with that bogus 65,000 reservationist threshold they claimed they needed: That alone says it all about what they were scheming.

Here’s a basic ‘primer’ on the consideration element of a Contract:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/consideration-every-contract-needs-33361.html

1) I believe that there should be a lawsuit to require Elio to issue full refunds of all of the refundable deposits. Elio did not put the refundable money into an escrow account until they were forced to do so, but it appears that the money was eventually escrowed. Any reservationist who still wanted Elio to keep the money should be given the option to refuse the refund. Any uncashed refunds would be escheated.

2) There is no lawsuit to recover non-refundable reservations because there is nothing left to recover.

3) The only lawsuit that would make sense would be to go after the Elio principals personally based on invalid or fraudulent contracts. The non-refundable reservation contract was invalid because of the lack of consideration as noted above. The production line never existed, so a spot in that line was and is meaningless. Elio never offered consideration because they specifically exempted themselves from any obligation, ie invalidating any consideration. The question of the contract being fraudulent would be harder to prove in court, but there is quite a lot of evidence that the Elio principles knew, or should have known, that their advertising was false, and that their claims of possible production were impossible to meet. Even with lack of consideration being easy to prove, and stipulating that fraud existed, it is uncertain that sufficient assets remain personally (excepting for Lichtner) to satisfy the claims.

TLDR > It's unlikely that the Elio principles will be held to account in the U.S. court system for the losses incurred by those who fell for their sales pitches.

 

[W. WIllie]

At one time there was a petition for a class action lawsuit stirring about but more signatures were needed. I think it was in Az.......IIRR.

 

[tom]

1) I believe that there should be a lawsuit to require Elio to issue full refunds of all of the refundable deposits. Elio did not put the refundable money into an escrow account until they were forced to do so, but it appears that the money was eventually escrowed. Any reservationist who still wanted Elio to keep the money should be given the option to refuse the refund. Any uncashed refunds would be escheated.

2) There is no lawsuit to recover non-refundable reservations because there is nothing left to recover.

3) The only lawsuit that would make sense would be to go after the Elio principals personally based on invalid or fraudulent contracts. The non-refundable reservation contract was invalid because of the lack of consideration as noted above. The production line never existed, so a spot in that line was and is meaningless. Elio never offered consideration because they specifically exempted themselves from any obligation, ie invalidating any consideration. The question of the contract being fraudulent would be harder to prove in court, but there is quite a lot of evidence that the Elio principles knew, or should have known, that their advertising was false, and that their claims of possible production were impossible to meet. Even with lack of consideration being easy to prove, and stipulating that fraud existed, it is uncertain that sufficient assets remain personally (excepting for Lichtner) to satisfy the claims.

TLDR > It's unlikely that the Elio principles will be held to account in the U.S. court system for the losses incurred by those who fell for their sales pitches.

 

[tom]

I assume im fucked. 2 want ins. 1 all in and 2500.00 in stock.
Thinking of hiring a hit man

 

[Josh]

I assume im fucked. 2 want ins. 1 all in and 2500.00 in stock.
Thinking of hiring a hit man

Uhm........yes. As has already been pointed out numerous times, there is nothing left to recover. The eleo was always a fantasy of pe's. As a registered professional engineer it was obvious to me that the while thing was a pipe dream financially enabled by folks that wanted to believe. For a start-up company to successfully design, build and bring to market a new vehicle with acceptable performance, unmatched fuel economy and at a unbelievably low, low price point to boot. Well the outcome was never in question.

 

[Elio Amazed]

I assume im fucked. 2 want ins. 1 all in and 2500.00 in stock.
Thinking of hiring a hit man

Need to modify your post a bit. Not so much because of the language but because of the other content. Even joking like that will get you red flagged these days and getting red flagged can get your firearms confiscated in the middle of the night with no warning.. The NSA and others record and process literally everything and have a system to catch key words and phrases in all internet posts.

 

[RSchneider]

Uhm........yes. As has already been pointed out numerous times, there is nothing left to recover. The eleo was always a fantasy of pe's. As a registered professional engineer it was obvious to me that the while thing was a pipe dream financially enabled by folks that wanted to believe. For a start-up company to successfully design, build and bring to market a new vehicle with acceptable performance, unmatched fuel economy and at a unbelievably low, low price point to boot. Well the outcome was never in question.

In addition to that, people just didn't question his background. They wanted to believe he had all of this experience in the automotive industry when he had very little. His engineering company dabbled in the car industry but mostly was for solar energy. Even at that, it failed. His inexperience showed when he started making claims he couldn't back up. Then when people that had lots of automotive experience pointed out the obvious flaws early on, he kept grinding away and only toward the end, he tried to make major changes (i.e. going from a space frame to unibody) which literally drained a bunch of money at the wrong time. If you look at the finances, 2016 was the year they spent the most on R&D. Coincidentally, that was exactly the same time they did a complete redesign with a new chassis. Then the engine was more publicized and people wanted to believe he was doing making the right choice. When no experts in the field agreed with him. Yet again, lots of money spent on the wrong thing.

Then his business experience showed too. He made too many bad deals that just drained the finances of the company. The plant cost him dearly. His 1500 employee work deal cost him dearly. He never had a base of operations or a decent employee number. Instead he was farming it all out and just renting facilities just to make it look like they had some sort of engineering department. To top it off he spent way too much money on lobbying for helmet laws to change. Then the amount they spent on marketing was way too high especially when you looked at the outfit they had. Most of the time is was a small box trailer and a pickup with setups in places like shopping malls. Someone got rich towing that car all over the country because the marketing budget was massive for what was presented.

Now Paul has created a toxic atmosphere around him. Dropping off the face of the earth for the last two years is not a good way for your current SIL holders and future customers to keep believing in you. So, he has killed the business and is now just waiting for the clock to run out. It will become a case that will be studied in school as what not to do in business.

 

[3wheelin]

In addition to that, people just didn't question his background. They wanted to believe he had all of this experience in the automotive industry when he had very little. His engineering company dabbled in the car industry but mostly was for solar energy. Even at that, it failed. His inexperience showed when he started making claims he couldn't back up. Then when people that had lots of automotive experience pointed out the obvious flaws early on, he kept grinding away and only toward the end, he tried to make major changes (i.e. going from a space frame to unibody) which literally drained a bunch of money at the wrong time. If you look at the finances, 2016 was the year they spent the most on R&D. Coincidentally, that was exactly the same time they did a complete redesign with a new chassis. Then the engine was more publicized and people wanted to believe he was doing making the right choice. When no experts in the field agreed with him. Yet again, lots of money spent on the wrong thing.

Then his business experience showed too. He made too many bad deals that just drained the finances of the company. The plant cost him dearly. His 1500 employee work deal cost him dearly. He never had a base of operations or a decent employee number. Instead he was farming it all out and just renting facilities just to make it look like they had some sort of engineering department. To top it off he spent way too much money on lobbying for helmet laws to change. Then the amount they spent on marketing was way too high especially when you looked at the outfit they had. Most of the time is was a small box trailer and a pickup with setups in places like shopping malls. Someone got rich towing that car all over the country because the marketing budget was massive for what was presented.

Now Paul has created a toxic atmosphere around him. Dropping off the face of the earth for the last two years is not a good way for your current SIL holders and future customers to keep believing in you. So, he has killed the business and is now just waiting for the clock to run out. It will become a case that will be studied in school as what not to do in business.

In the end his name will forever be associated with Dale Shiffts! History repeated itself in this case because people didn't learn from the Dale 3wheeler of the 70's. If it smells too good to be true...it usually is.

 

[Watashiwah]

In addition to that, people just didn't question his background. They wanted to believe he had all of this experience in the automotive industry when he had very little. His engineering company dabbled in the car industry but mostly was for solar energy. Even at that, it failed. His inexperience showed when he started making claims he couldn't back up. Then when people that had lots of automotive experience pointed out the obvious flaws early on, he kept grinding away and only toward the end, he tried to make major changes (i.e. going from a space frame to unibody) which literally drained a bunch of money at the wrong time. If you look at the finances, 2016 was the year they spent the most on R&D. Coincidentally, that was exactly the same time they did a complete redesign with a new chassis. Then the engine was more publicized and people wanted to believe he was doing making the right choice. When no experts in the field agreed with him. Yet again, lots of money spent on the wrong thing.

Then his business experience showed too. He made too many bad deals that just drained the finances of the company. The plant cost him dearly. His 1500 employee work deal cost him dearly. He never had a base of operations or a decent employee number. Instead he was farming it all out and just renting facilities just to make it look like they had some sort of engineering department. To top it off he spent way too much money on lobbying for helmet laws to change. Then the amount they spent on marketing was way too high especially when you looked at the outfit they had. Most of the time is was a small box trailer and a pickup with setups in places like shopping malls. Someone got rich towing that car all over the country because the marketing budget was massive for what was presented.

Now Paul has created a toxic atmosphere around him. Dropping off the face of the earth for the last two years is not a good way for your current SIL holders and future customers to keep believing in you. So, he has killed the business and is now just waiting for the clock to run out. It will become a case that will be studied in school as what not to do in business.

On paper, at least, it looked like Hari had the business ‘chops’ and education and ATVM experience. Paul’s CV, which apparently surfaced later, was almost humorously pathetic.

I still can’t fathom just what Hari brought to the party except an open hand. Where was he ?

 

[Samalross]

On paper, at least, it looked like Hari had the business ‘chops’ and education and ATVM experience. Paul’s CV, which apparently surfaced later, was almost humorously pathetic.

I still can’t fathom just what Hari brought to the party except an open hand. Where was he ?

On paper, at least, it looked like Hari had the business ‘chops’ and education and ATVM experience. Paul’s CV, which apparently surfaced later, was almost humorously pathetic.

I still can’t fathom just what Hari brought to the party except an open hand. Where was he ?

I think Iyer showed Elio that the money to be made is is by not building a car.