Why No Law Suit...............

[2barrel]

I wish I could agree with you Josh, but as far as ‘timing’ goes, (besides ‘bad’ ‘timing’ not being a legal impediment in this instance), the clock starts for that individual (All of them, many thousands of them) when they sent in their reservation money for the fictional and arguably fraudulent ‘spot in line.’ It makes no difference how long the ruse has been going on before. More victims before have no bearing: duping even more lazy, or ‘buffaloed’ people isn’t a defense (yet). The argument turns on invalid contract. Timing has nothing to do with it, it’s not like negligence or some other tort that a ‘finder of fact’ might agree.

 

[Josh]

I wish I could agree with you Josh, but as far as ‘timing’ goes, (besides ‘bad’ ‘timing’ not being a legal impediment in this instance), the clock starts for that individual (All of them, many thousands of them) when they sent in their reservation money for the fictional and arguably fraudulent ‘spot in line.’ It makes no difference how long the ruse has been going on before. More victims before have no bearing: duping even more lazy, or ‘buffaloed’ people isn’t a defense (yet). The argument turns on invalid contract. Timing has nothing to do with it, it’s not like negligence or some other tort that a ‘finder of fact’ might agree.

You sound like you know your way around a law book, so I will defer to the very good points that you make. I still believe though that a lawsuit at this late date would be pointless and the only parties that would benefit would be the opposing lawyers. I think pe will always land on his feet and will simply lie low and eventually elio motors will just be an unpleasant memory.

 

[Watashiwah]

It looks to me that Mr. Elio has been pretty much a ‘ne’er-do-well,’ he shares a few patents and maybe had a few projects (ESG Engineering) but ultimately a very lackluster CV. IIRC, Paul once indicated he resorted to roofing for his livelihood even during his ‘automotive career.’ I think the engineering within ESG may have been driven by Bob Gillespie the ‘G’ and maybe getting their few and sundry projects was Hari S. Iyer’s job. The ‘business’ side of ESG was probably non existent since they apparently never sold anything but ‘engineering services’ and that was likely brief and intermittent.

I think this will be Paul’s last foray into anything engineering and he’s probably thinking he’s very lucky with a windfall he initially never expected. By many standards EM/ESG marketing was the long suit, probably the focus especially by Hari. As a self proclaimed ‘serial entrepreneur’ Hari would be the first to know that marketing is ‘everything.’ The rare times we did see Paul in videos and at the podium he did quite a good job and was pretty engaging: methinks he was just ‘the face’ of ESG. That’s probably why ESG spun up and used ‘Elio.’ Gillespie is too awkward and Iyer is maybe a little too ‘foreign,’ besides Hari used his middle initial anyhow.....

Of course Paul could say something, anything!, to prove me wrong.

 

[Maurtis]

IIRC, Paul once indicated he resorted to roofing for his livelihood even during his ‘automotive career.’

I agree with a lot that has been said in these posts, but I have seen multiple times people jumping on this point. Why are we employment shaming Paul for having to resort to roofing in a time of need???

I have been in software development for almost 25 years. Back in 2001 after the dotcom bubble burst, I was in SoCal and tech jobs were hard to come by, so to make ends meet I worked as a freight dock supervisor for a couple months until I found my next tech job. If I lost my job now and was not able to find something else and all that was available was picking up dog poop by hand, you better believe I would be scooping that poop with a smile. You do what you have to do.

And if I start my own company and someone wants to use my time as a freight worker as a point against me, that says more about them than me.

 

[Samalross]

I agree with a lot that has been said in these posts, but I have seen multiple times people jumping on this point. Why are we employment shaming Paul for having to resort to roofing in a time of need???

I have been in software development for almost 25 years. Back in 2001 after the dotcom bubble burst, I was in SoCal and tech jobs were hard to come by, so to make ends meet I worked as a freight dock supervisor for a couple months until I found my next tech job. If I lost my job now and was not able to find something else and all that was available was picking up dog poop by hand, you better believe I would be scooping that poop with a smile. You do what you have to do.

And if I start my own company and someone wants to use my time as a freight worker as a point against me, that says more about them than me.

I don't think that he was disparaging Elio for being a roofer. Elio was never qualified to start up an automotive company. He was a good huckster, nothing more.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

The problem is not that Paul was a roofer. The problem is that he never built the promised vehicle.

 

[LGilbert]

The problem is not that Paul was a roofer. The problem is that he never built the promised vehicle.

There was no 'promised vehicle'. Read your contract, section II. On the contrary, it clearly states they might never produce a vehicle. Your contract was fulfilled the moment they acknowledged the money you sent them.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

There was no 'promised vehicle'. Read your contract, section II. On the contrary, it clearly states they might never produce a vehicle. Your contract was fulfilled the moment they acknowledged the money you sent them.

LOL "My" contract? That was Elio's contract, not mine. It was an invalid contract due to lack of consideration. I was insufficiently naive to actually give them any money. When I walked into the CAD office that was listed on the contract, with money in my pocket, and the people at the office didn't even know that Elio Motors was using their office as the company address, warning alarms started blaring in my head. The CAD designers were enthusiastic, but Elio played them like a fiddle, just like all the reservationists were played.

No, friend. I read the contract. I sat it the show cars. I read and analyzed the SEC statements. The dichotomy between the promises and the reservation agreement were both obvious and egregious. My enthusiasm for the concept cost me far more valuable time that a measly $100, or even $1000, but Paul Elio never got any of my money. I learned about consideration decades ago, and recognized the reservation wording as an invalid contract upon reading it. People who pointed that out were called trolls and banned from forums, but it never changed the reality.

 

[RSchneider]

As I've said, nobody is going to sue Elio. There are lots of stories out there of failed crowdfunded projects where people put money down and the company goes bankrupt. Many of them never even produced a working prototype. Some never even produced a prototype at all. In the end, the leaders of those companies (usually 2-3 people) all walked away. On social media the battle cry, "Someone needs to sue these guys." Yet it rarely ever happens. From reading these stories over the years when crowdfunding became the next big thing in raising capital, I knew there were going to be failed projects. I did a search and just Google: Plastc Smartcard It's a perfect example of a dream that was never going to work, yet people wanted it to. Company raised $9M in crowdfunding, made lots of promises, never showed a prototype and then when the masses started threatening with a lawsuit all of a sudden they went bankrupt. Owner walked away scott free.

For Elio, people still have hope. So nobody really wants to sue Elio because if they did, once that word got out, the company would declare bankruptcy. That's the game plan for failed crowdfunding as many others have done this. Typically you make everyone feel bad by then releasing a press release that you were within days of getting the needed investment but time ran out because of bills and pending legal issues (so shifting the blame on the people that wanted to sue). Then the staunch supporters will believe the company and be really upset that some people were too shortsighted and now nobody will get their prize.

Just to show the interest in suing Elio Motors, look how long it took to get those 1000 signatures. Then the guy who is in charge of that petition is MIA. Goes to show, people like to scream through their keyboard yet never act upon it as they hope someone else does it.

 

[Watashiwah]

There was no 'promised vehicle'. Read your contract, section II. On the contrary, it clearly states they might never produce a vehicle. Your contract was fulfilled the moment they acknowledged the money you sent them.

Contractual Consideration explained in it’s simplest form:
—————————-
Consideration
Something of value must be exchanged in order to have a valid legal agreement. Usually, things like products, property, protection, or services are offered for the exchange of money.

If not trading in money at all, the parties should be sure that the court would view whatever they are trading, also called their consideration, as valuable.

—————————-
A ‘spot in line’ is actually quite funny!! Hari and Paul probably got a chuckle with that!!
Literally, purchasing or receiving anything and everything includes and involves a ‘spot in line’ at some juncture: it means nothing, it is nothing, a ‘spot in line’ has no value. This becomes especially true when there is no ‘line’ to have a ‘spot’ in!!

On a personal note: I’ve been contacted by a legal firm that specializes in class action regarding another company with similar management ‘issues’ as Elio Motors. Generally, I don’t like this course unless egregious. The ‘win-win’ strategy benefiting Paul and Hari, and the ‘lose-lose’ results for investors and reservationists (the reason for both parties to ‘have skin in the game,’ i.e., consideration) is arguably egregious IMHO. If Paul and Hari were honest and forthright, they would have communicated with us more over the last few years. I’m lobbing for this firm to look into Elio. If they think there is some merit, I’ll let y’all know.