What Is The Status Of The Atvm Loan?

[AriLea]

V W?

As a percentage of the population yes, maybe true. Even as it was for the model-T. But this context I was interested in is partly about the actual manufacturing volume per year. So if you are viewing popularity relative to population, OK. I'd have to look up the production rates from back then vs the customer population that applies to that context.
But the actual counts for the Elio could go quite a bit higher than 240k units if the stats above hold true. And that potential count is indeed higher than historical records. But yes of course this partly is because world populations are simply higher too.
The concept of relative popularity may not be as simple to compare to the past as it might seem. Indeed how would I establish pent-up demand for first year models from the past? I do feel confident there wasn't 122years of it at 240k units. Not even for the bug or model-T.

 

[Frim]

As a percentage of the population yes, maybe true. Even as it was for the model-T. But this context I was interested in is partly about the actual manufacturing volume per year. So if you are viewing popularity relative to population, OK. I'd have to look up the production rates from back then vs the customer population that applies to that context.
But the actual counts for the Elio could go quite a bit higher than 240k units if the stats above hold true. And that potential count is indeed higher than historical records. But yes of course this partly is because world populations are simply higher too.
The concept of relative popularity may not be as simple to compare to the past as it might seem. Indeed how would I establish pent-up demand for first year models from the past? I do feel confident there wasn't 122years of it at 240k units. Not even for the bug or model-T.

Three statisticians went duck hunting. The first statistician shot too high, the second shot too low, The third statistician shouldered his gun and exclaimed, "We got him".

 

[AriLea]

Three statisticians went duck hunting. The first statistician shot too high, the second shot too low, The third statistician shouldered his gun and exclaimed, "We got him".

Oh boy, can't out do a realist who also has humor! :-)

 

[Marshall]

If the profit per vehicle is small, the big boys may not be interested. Paul Elio has said they plan to keep the profit per vehicle small to discourage competition.

But the big boys may be interested in something that would cause them to like EM and view them as a partner, not a competetor. Paul Elio has said they (EM) would like to get legislation passed allowing carbon credits from autocycles to be sold to the auto industry. Thus carbon credits could be sold by EM to the big boys. EM makes money, and the big boys can make large and powerful vehicles, which is what they really like.

Paul Elio has said none of the large auto makers like to be the first to offer a new option, because it is a problem for them if the option is unpopular. EM is planning on offering options that can be easily installed at the marshaling centers, and easily discontinued if proved unpopular. The big boys would watch to see if the option is something people want.

Paul Elio is hoping for a win-win relationship with the big boys.

I am vehemently opposed to the whole idea of Carbon Credits. But since they don't appear to be headed to the trash bin, take advantage of what exists.

 

[Jim H]

I am vehemently opposed to the whole idea of Carbon Credits. But since they don't appear to be headed to the trash bin, take advantage of what exists.

Could not agree more. Take advantage of every opportunity as it becomes available.

 

[Ty]

I am vehemently opposed to the whole idea of Carbon Credits. But since they don't appear to be headed to the trash bin, take advantage of what exists.

The "Theory" behind carbon credits makes sense... reward a manufacturer for making fuel efficient vehicles and penalize those who don't. In theory, the penalties covers the rewards and the whole program is a wash and doesn't cost taxpayers any money. In theory. It's also set up with a moveable goal so that you have to make better and better cars to earn them and are penalized more and more for making poor fuel economy vehicles. For every truck Ford makes, they need to make a fuel efficient car. Well, they don't. So, they are penalized... So buyers of trucks end up paying that bill which means people are less likely to buy trucks they just don't really need... Which causes them to buy fewer and Ford to make fewer and... Well, in theory, like I said, eventually, we'll get more efficient vehicles overall.

You can say "Keep the government out of it. Let the market decide." Well, the market is made of people. People are idiots.

 

[WilliamH]

The "Theory" behind carbon credits makes sense... reward a manufacturer for making fuel efficient vehicles and penalize those who don't. In theory, the penalties covers the rewards and the whole program is a wash and doesn't cost taxpayers any money. In theory. It's also set up with a moveable goal so that you have to make better and better cars to earn them and are penalized more and more for making poor fuel economy vehicles. For every truck Ford makes, they need to make a fuel efficient car. Well, they don't. So, they are penalized... So buyers of trucks end up paying that bill which means people are less likely to buy trucks they just don't really need... Which causes them to buy fewer and Ford to make fewer and... Well, in theory, like I said, eventually, we'll get more efficient vehicles overall.

You can say "Keep the government out of it. Let the market decide." Well, the market is made of people. People are idiots.

Ah..Haaaa.... (said like Eddie Murphy in the barber shop -- Coming to America)
But if it weren't for the "carbon credits" Tesla would go under.
It's selling the "carbon credits" that keeps them a float.

 

[Frim]

Ah..Haaaa.... (said like Eddie Murphy in the barber shop -- Coming to America)
But if it weren't for the "carbon credits" Tesla would go under.
It's selling the "carbon credits" that keeps them a float.

A-hah, I got it.!! We could get some seed and use the unused floor space in Shreveport for a huge hothouse to grow our own carbon credits to sell to Ford and Chevy. then we wouldn't need the Govt. loan to build the Elio!!

 

[Marshall]

You can say "Keep the government out of it. Let the market decide." Well, the market is made of people. People are idiots.

And the government is made up of the worst of the worst people - idiots.

 

[Eliosio]

I know this is a buyer oriented forum, still I can't help but think strategically like a producer, it's a habit.

As we know from other discussions, the numbers above indicate there are likely a mid-volume market for a EV-Elio at a premium EV price say $15-$30k. But I see also a big enough market for a single seat Autocycle at say 45-75k units per year at say $1100-1600 less than the Elio. Using the same drive train it could be a sport-model. Given the Turbo Option, that would be a Super-Spider model.

I say this because when the Elio is all that popular, another maker will figure all that out and maybe produce such a vehicle as a segway into the high volume autocycle market. To avoid the incursion of competition, at about year 2, IMHO, it would be worth publishing more stock to accommodate one or both of those products.

In the same vain, a stretch Elio with a third seat and second door would also be a viable option.