What Is The Latest Start Production Date?

[johnsnownw]

I'm curious. Name one "off-the-shelf engine" they could have used.

I'd pose that question to Elio, as they didn't cite the lack of availability of an off-the-shelf engine as the reason for the switch:

As the team began to dive into some of the details and changes to meet the desired Elio targets, one thing became apparent: the Geo Metro engine would not meet the fuel efficiency targets to enable the vehicle fuel economy goal of 84 MPG highway.

https://www.eliomotors.com/the-elio-engine-part-1/

 

[Jambe]

I'd pose that question to Elio, as they didn't cite the lack of availability of an off-the-shelf engine as the reason for the switch:/

Yes they did. Dozens of times.

"Since the Elio is considerably lighter than anything else on the market today a suitable existing engine was not available. This included the Geo Metro engine since it was optimized for running at the higher load used in a heavier and larger vehicle. The conclusion was clear – to meet the vehicle performance, economy, and cost objectives, a new engine would be necessary."

 

[johnsnownw]

Yes they did. Dozens of times.

"Since the Elio is considerably lighter than anything else on the market today a suitable existing engine was not available. This included the Geo Metro engine since it was optimized for running at the higher load used in a heavier and larger vehicle. The conclusion was clear – to meet the vehicle performance, economy, and cost objectives, a new engine would be necessary."

That was in the context of meeting their efficiency target...one that most Elio reservation holders don't seem overly concerned about.

It's relatively simple: They couldn't achieve the ATVM loan qualification with the Metro engine without sacrificing performance. That's totally understandable, I might add. However, if you think it was cheaper (in the short-term) for them to pay someone to develop an engine than use the Metro engine without the ATVM loan, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

My point is that they should have used the money that Paul says is available, while utilizing the Metro engine, and brought the product to market sooner, rather than delay and develop the new engine. The fact is that the Elio isn't dependent on ~84mpg to sell to their demographic...

 

[Coss]

That was in the context of meeting their efficiency target...one that most Elio reservation holders don't seem overly concerned about.

It's relatively simple: They couldn't achieve the ATVM loan qualification with the Metro engine without sacrificing performance. That's totally understandable, I might add. However, if you think it was cheaper (in the short-term) for them to pay someone to develop an engine than use the Metro engine without the ATVM loan, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

My point is that they should have used the money that Paul says is available, while utilizing the Metro engine, and brought the product to market sooner, rather than delay and develop the new engine. The fact is that the Elio isn't dependent on ~84mpg to sell to their demographic...

This is and was then, Paul Elio's and Elio Motors objective, and not just to produce another autocycle.
It is considered a core objective that Paul put down at the beginning of this project.
So if you would like to suggest that to Paul and EM, I suggest you contact Elio Motors.
Elio Owners Forum is not affiliated directly to Elio Motors and we can only comment, not change anything on the project.
This site is also only a little less than 4,000 members and there are 62,000+ reservation holders.

Elio Motors can be contacted at:

Website
http://www.eliomotors.com

Elio Customer Service: Toll Free: (844) 289-3546
Direct: (480) 500-6800 Ext. 1
Phone Hours: M-F 9am – 3pm Central Time

Emails:
tellmemore@eliomotors.com
orders@eliomotors.com
support@eliomotors.zendesk.com
futureowners@eliomotors.com
https://reservations.eliomotors.com/customer/account/

Mailing address:
Elio Motors, Inc.
2942 North 24th Street,
Suite 114-700
Phoenix, AZ 85016

 

[Ty]

That was in the context of meeting their efficiency target...one that most Elio reservation holders don't seem overly concerned about.

It's relatively simple: They couldn't achieve the ATVM loan qualification with the Metro engine without sacrificing performance. That's totally understandable, I might add. However, if you think it was cheaper (in the short-term) for them to pay someone to develop an engine than use the Metro engine without the ATVM loan, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

My point is that they should have used the money that Paul says is available, while utilizing the Metro engine, and brought the product to market sooner, rather than delay and develop the new engine. The fact is that the Elio isn't dependent on ~84mpg to sell to their demographic...

Using an engine that is no longer produced or available is NOT a good way to prove your viability as a company.
"Look, here is the vehicle we are going to produce... except we'll have to magically produce engines... " Yeah, to prove you have a viable, sustainable business model (an ATMV requirement), you have to know the costs and selling price. You can't do that very well if you have to guess the cost of the motor.

 

[skygazer6033]

I seem to recall from the very first SEC filling (the only one I read all of) the cost from IAV was only 1.6 million dollars and at a very low interest rate. In the scheme of things, that's pocket change. Probably the best deal in the whole project and definitely the way to go. To do otherwise would jeopardize production and put production at the whim of another company. If a company can't supply the number of needed engines you can't just go to another vendor. Actually I'm a little apprehensive that they're not going to build their own transmissions.

 

[johnsnownw]

This is and was then, Paul Elio's and Elio Motors objective, and not just to produce another autocycle.
It is considered a core objective that Paul put down at the beginning of this project.
So if you would like to suggest that to Paul and EM, I suggest you contact Elio Motors.
Elio Owners Forum is not affiliated directly to Elio Motors and we can only comment, not change anything on the project.
This site is also only a little less than 4,000 members and there are 62,000+ reservation holders.

Elio Motors can be contacted at:

Website
http://www.eliomotors.com

Elio Customer Service: Toll Free: (844) 289-3546
Direct: (480) 500-6800 Ext. 1
Phone Hours: M-F 9am – 3pm Central Time

Emails:
tellmemore@eliomotors.com
orders@eliomotors.com
support@eliomotors.zendesk.com
futureowners@eliomotors.com
https://reservations.eliomotors.com/customer/account/

Mailing address:
Elio Motors, Inc.
2942 North 24th Street,
Suite 114-700
Phoenix, AZ 85016

Thanks for the information, but I don't see how this provides an avenue to have a discussion with a forum member...

Using an engine that is no longer produced or available is NOT a good way to prove your viability as a company.
"Look, here is the vehicle we are going to produce... except we'll have to magically produce engines... " Yeah, to prove you have a viable, sustainable business model (an ATMV requirement), you have to know the costs and selling price. You can't do that very well if you have to guess the cost of the motor.

This may be. I was solely going off of Elio's explanation for the reason they were going with building their own. The mention of availability of an off-the-shelf engine wasn't noted in the explanation, so I simply assumed that it wasn't the heart of the issue.

 

[outsydthebox]

I'm curious. Name one "off-the-shelf engine" they could have used.

True. Nothing available.

 

[outsydthebox]

I seem to recall from the very first SEC filling (the only one I read all of) the cost from IAV was only 1.6 million dollars and at a very low interest rate. In the scheme of things, that's pocket change. Probably the best deal in the whole project and definitely the way to go. To do otherwise would jeopardize production and put production at the whim of another company. If a company can't supply the number of needed engines you can't just go to another vendor. Actually I'm a little apprehensive that they're not going to build their own transmissions.

 

[Rickb]

That was in the context of meeting their efficiency target...one that most Elio reservation holders don't seem overly concerned about.

It's relatively simple: They couldn't achieve the ATVM loan qualification with the Metro engine without sacrificing performance. That's totally understandable, I might add. However, if you think it was cheaper (in the short-term) for them to pay someone to develop an engine than use the Metro engine without the ATVM loan, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

My point is that they should have used the money that Paul says is available, while utilizing the Metro engine, and brought the product to market sooner, rather than delay and develop the new engine. The fact is that the Elio isn't dependent on ~84mpg to sell to their demographic...

I think your point of view is interesting, but that boat has sailed. I've been following Elio from day one. In the beginning, Paul Elio's Core Objective and initial target was 70+ MPG. It bumped to 84 mpg later to look as though they could meet or beat the DoE's ATVM Program minimum 75 mph requirement. Also, note the marketed initial under $7500 MSRP and TOP RATED SAFETY: 5-Star Safety Compliant. Most people back in the early days of the Hello Elio Campaign were skeptical about safety, but the 5 Star safety compliant marketing strategy obviously satisfied that concern. I was ready to buy one regardless of safety.

Reservation holder's would be fine with 50 + MPG. EM was 'targeting' the ATVM Loan funding when upping to 84 MPG. They spent $1.6 million of limited R&D funding on developing the new IAV engine that may or may not meet the ATVM MPG requirement. We haven't heard much about the engine so who really knows? The reality is it's taking so long to get the E's built and tested to validate the concept and the MPG, that the ATVM program is likely to fade away in 2017. EM may likely miss the alternative energy boat as we return to the good old days of drill baby drill. Sorry, I tend to look at all scenarios. Plan for the worst, expect the best.

R &D of a new engine is as difficult to design, test, and get to production as the Elio's shell. I'd love to see 123 + - crated IAV engines stacked up waiting to be dropped into the 23 E's and 100 pre-production Elio's scheduled to roll out in 2017. They probably are in a warehouse ready to ship.