What Is The Latest Start Production Date?

[NorTracNY]

Correct me if I am wrong: This gov't loan approval turns on mainly two requirements. 1. The overall mpg performance dependent on the engine. 2. 'Proof' of the ability to repay the loan.

As of today, there appear to be two (2) engines, one maybe a representative of purposely designed prototype and one Geo Metro. There are no dyno test numbers published of either motor, there is a short video of an engine in a lab.

EM admits to needing upwards of 300 million dollars more and has already expended about 100 million. The ATVM loan is for less than 150 million.

EM has seized upon a more recent but nebulous loan requirement calling for a commitment 'pledge' of interested buyers to essentially commit to the order process: sounds like some abstract but non binding way to somehow present that although the dolllars and specifications aren't there, or attainable, we can make it work by getting 65,000 preorders. These preorders indicate commitment even though EM is wheeling and dealing with discounting which by many acoounts may leave a profit of 1,000 dollars, or less, per vehicle.

I am hoping to see my Elio in my driveway soon, the new car I put my Elio bumper sticker on three years ago has almost 60,000 miles on it and my tee shirt is getting so thin and gauzy that it rips when I pull it over my oxygen mask and drool cup.

I believe most of what you wrote is correct, but a lot is speculative and may have some people here scream one way or another. I believe the ATVM loan Elio is looking for is $184M. I believe that is the amount that they thought they needed to get to production at the time.

I do not know how many engines Elio has made. I'm not sure if we ever saw more than one at a time. I think we have seen an engine in the P5 and the E1c. I'm sure someone opened up the hood of the P5 at the show and we won't have a conspiracy theory of only one exist. I would certainly think the E1a has one. I believe someone here pointed out that it appeared the E1d did not have one.

 

[W. WIllie]

Only ELIO knows!

 

[NorTracNY]

Only ELIO knows!

Oh great! Now it appears the the unimaginable (to me) may be true. I found a comment on another site that said the engine was not in the P5.

 

[wizard of ahs]

Oh great! Now it appears the the unimaginable (to me) may be true. I found a comment on another site that said the engine was not in the P5.

Don't know if that is true or not..........BUT........the engine in the E1C DOES look like the one that was in the P5

 

[grampi]

There is no government delay. It's EM's delay to produce a running tested prototype to validate claims made on their ATVM application form. Easier to cast blame on the government? The government wants to be sure the Elio qualifies and that EM has the financial status to repay the loan. It's an example of responsible government.

What exactly is it that EM has to do to "qualify?" Seems to me all they should have to show is that they are going to make enough profit to pay back the loan...I don't see how the vehicle getting only 80 MPG, as opposed to the claimed 84 MPG makes any difference in how many they will sell...I think it would sell like hotcakes even if it only managed to get 60 MPG, simply because it's different...

 

[Coss]

I believe most of what you wrote is correct, but a lot is speculative and may have some people here scream one way or another. I believe the ATVM loan Elio is looking for is $184M. I believe that is the amount that they thought they needed to get to production at the time.

I do not know how many engines Elio has made. I'm not sure if we ever saw more than one at a time. I think we have seen an engine in the P5 and the E1c. I'm sure someone opened up the hood of the P5 at the show and we won't have a conspiracy theory of only one exist. I would certainly think the E1a has one. I believe someone here pointed out that it appeared the E1d did not have one.

The E1D that went to Red Dot had no motor in it at all. In the picture of it being loaded into the trailer, you can see daylight through the grill.

 

[NorTracNY]

What exactly is it that EM has to do to "qualify?" Seems to me all they should have to show is that they are going to make enough profit to pay back the loan...I don't see how the vehicle getting only 80 MPG, as opposed to the claimed 84 MPG makes any difference in how many they will sell...I think it would sell like hotcakes even if it only managed to get 60 MPG, simply because it's different...

There are many requirements. Look up the program. The first one that jumps out to me is this. "In order to be financially eligible for an ATVM loan, an applicant must be financially viable without the receipt of additional federal funding for the proposed project." Elio says they need $300M to get to production, but they have only asked for $184M. So if Elio got the loan today they still wouldn't be able to start production.

They also haven't proven they have a vehicle that will get any mpg. I was under the impression that is why they started the engineering models to create a vehicle that can be tested and will hit Xmpg. I'm not sure, but I think the ATVM was looking for 75mpg.

The government lost money on many loans when they started tossing out money several years ago. I'm sure Elio knows what they need to do.

 

[NorTracNY]

Here is an overview. I see the 75mpg that I remember hearing listed in it. Elio hasn't proven that.
http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/ATVM_Program_Overview_2015.pdf

 

[W. WIllie]

They should be able to get 75 mpg easily, using the EPA or whatever requirements. (HP/WEIGHT ratio) and aerodynamcs.
They are shooting for 84 mpg. back when they first proposed the MPG it was a definite 84, now it is "up to 84MPG".
Only time will tell.

 

[NorTracNY]

They should be able to get 75 mpg easily, using the EPA or whatever requirements. (HP/WEIGHT ratio) and aerodynamcs.
They are shooting for 84 mpg. back when they first proposed the MPG it was a definite 84, now it is "up to 84MPG".
Only time will tell.

Actually I saw a very old Elio article that was 60mpg. I would be disappointed if our government gave the loan for a product that couldn't verify their mileage claim of over 75mpg. I would think modeling would maybe be OK, but who knows what the government has seen and not seen.