What Is Elio Stock Trading For Today?

[Ty]

Doesn't mean that he's the least bit competent. History would argue just the opposite. It doesn't mean he's trustworthy with other people's interests. I guess we have a different definition of trustworthy. After seeing colossal, seemingly endless string of train wreck after train wreck, IMO only a extremely gullible person or a loved one trusts.

You probably trust a lot more people than you realize... You trust the barista to not spit in your coffee... etc.

 

[NSTG8R]

You probably trust a lot more people than you realize... You trust the barista to not spit in your coffee... etc.

Never trust a Barista! Or any guy with a "man bun".

 

[Elio Amazed]

You probably trust a lot more people than you realize... You trust the barista to not spit in your coffee... etc.

I make my own coffee. But I get it. I didn't say that I don't place a certain amount of trust in most people daily even if it's only for the sake of necessity and practicality. I was simply saying that it's probably not wise to trust people with responsibility for things that affect you after they've proven to be that incompetent that often. Thanks for the mental image though.

 

[RSchneider]

Doesn't mean that he's the least bit competent. History would argue just the opposite. It doesn't mean he's trustworthy with other people's interests. I guess we have a different definition of trustworthy. After seeing a colossal, seemingly endless string of train wreck after train wreck from a person, IMO only a extremely gullible person or a loved one trusts them.

I look at it differently. I look at it as the sum of errors that has cost the company. Those errors came from lack of experience when it comes to designing a mass produced widget. It's easy to design and implement a small volume product, the real challenge is when you crank up the numbers. I feel they needed a more experience group of engineers and managers when it came to what they have been trying to do. It shows they were lacking in those departments by the engineering changes they made. These were massive changes that literally broke the company. Elio should have had a unibody and an off the shelf engine to present to the general public when they made the huge announcement back in 2013 in Shreveport. That's the car that should have been presented, not the very first one that's not even close to what they plan on building.

This is a case of sticking the cart before the horse. They left out the R&D and went straight to marketing. Generating a lukewarm reception that got them to make a few more only to try to make up for the previous mistakes from back in 2009. Not only that, spending too much money paying lobbyists for two things. Getting three wheelers to become accepted for the ATVM loan program and changing the helmet and licensing laws. Then finally, the reservation system that rewarded people with discounts and fixed prices. Spending all of the reservation money and then watching those reservations costing them more and more each day is killing the company.

When you add up the errors, you see why they are in the situation today. When it comes to trust, that's been getting broken more and more because Elio motors refuses to talk to the reservationists and stockholders. This is not like he disappeared for a month, this is been going on for over a year (15 months). When people drop off the planet and don't talk, then that is not a way to boost confidence and trust. Paul could fix what was mentioned in this paragraph but I now know, he will not. The longer this goes the less trust there is.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

There are different levels of trust.
At this stage of the game, Paul Elio and Elio Motors have a fairly extensive track record.
How many promises has Elio kept? How many Elio predictions have come true?
How many promises has Elio broken? How many Elio predictions have proven false?
How much is still up in the air?

If you see the kept/true side exceeding the broken/false side, it might be reasonable to believe the "up in the air" items.
If you see the opposite, it would be unwise to think that the "up in the air" items will materialize as promised/predicted.

As best as I can see, Elio has kept one promise "we are under no obligation to supply you with a vehicle.". That's it. I don't recall any other significant promise being kept, or prediction coming true. Of course, they did send out most of the t-shirts and bumper stickers, and were at most of the shows where they said they would be.

If that's enough for some people to believe that an SIL is a guarantee that either a) they will get a vehicle, or b) they will get a vehicle in the promised order, terrific.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

I look at it differently. I look at it as the sum of errors that has cost the company. Those errors came from lack of experience when it comes to designing a mass produced widget. It's easy to design and implement a small volume product, the real challenge is when you crank up the numbers. I feel they needed a more experience group of engineers and managers when it came to what they have been trying to do. It shows they were lacking in those departments by the engineering changes they made. These were massive changes that literally broke the company. Elio should have had a unibody and an off the shelf engine to present to the general public when they made the huge announcement back in 2013 in Shreveport. That's the car that should have been presented, not the very first one that's not even close to what they plan on building.

This is a case of sticking the cart before the horse. They left out the R&D and went straight to marketing. Generating a lukewarm reception that got them to make a few more only to try to make up for the previous mistakes from back in 2009. Not only that, spending too much money paying lobbyists for two things. Getting three wheelers to become accepted for the ATVM loan program and changing the helmet and licensing laws. Then finally, the reservation system that rewarded people with discounts and fixed prices. Spending all of the reservation money and then watching those reservations costing them more and more each day is killing the company.

When you add up the errors, you see why they are in the situation today. When it comes to trust, that's been getting broken more and more because Elio motors refuses to talk to the reservationists and stockholders. This is not like he disappeared for a month, this is been going on for over a year (15 months). When people drop off the planet and don't talk, then that is not a way to boost confidence and trust. Paul could fix what was mentioned in this paragraph but I now know, he will not. The longer this goes the less trust there is.

Unfortunately, they track record shows clearly that Elio (individual and/or company) is either incompetent or dishonest or both. Elio amazed sees them as incompetent, and therefore not to be trusted. You see it "differently", you see it as them making an almost endless series of errors (what EA might call incompetence), and then going into hiding, so you don't see them as trustworthy. Sam Gompers doesn't see how your assessment is any different than EA's.

The most trusting seem to trust Elio in spite of believing that they are incompetent, because they (Elio/Elio Motors) were clever enough to have disclaimers attached to the bulk of their promises and/or predictions. It would be interesting to hear someone state "I still trust Elio (individual and/or company) because" and give their reason.

 

[RSchneider]

Unfortunately, they track record shows clearly that Elio (individual and/or company) is either incompetent or dishonest or both. Elio amazed sees them as incompetent, and therefore not to be trusted. You see it "differently", you see it as them making an almost endless series of errors (what EA might call incompetence), and then going into hiding, so you don't see them as trustworthy. Sam Gompers doesn't see how your assessment is any different than EA's.

The most trusting seem to trust Elio in spite of believing that they are incompetent, because they (Elio/Elio Motors) were clever enough to have disclaimers attached to the bulk of their promises and/or predictions. It would be interesting to hear someone state "I still trust Elio (individual and/or company) because" and give their reason.

This reminds me of the restaurant business. A friend of mine is part of a group that owns a number of high end restaurants in the area. His explanation on how that business goes is quite similar to Elio Motors.

This is where a chef at a restaurant us praised for his excellent food and is constantly told, "You need to do your own restaurant and you'd be really successful." Thus after a while, the Rock Star Syndrome comes into play. You have a product that everyone tells you will sell like crazy. So you start looking into a place to make that product. You find out the amount needed is too much. So you need investors. This is where it can go wrong. Either you get investors that's some rich lady that just wants to help you out and the other which is that she will invest but you need to follow this set plan for success but you need to give up some control and become a partner.

Thus you can go the one way and find out that the lady gets tired of the bills that come in and want's you to just get going. So you you do it on a limited budget and people that have little experience in the industry but you have full control. After 2 years the bleeding gets to be too much and the restaurant gets bad reviews down the road because of all of the things you never thought of. That was the service side and all of that other day to day business that does not involve cooking.

The other way is the lady brings in all of the experts and gets everything done with a definite timeline and on budget. You the chef, train three others to cook your food and you just oversee that part of the operation. Plus you are the face of the company and need to be out making the customers feel like they are special. In the end, it runs well, good reviews and goes on for a long time.

As for Elio they just never had enough talent behind the machine. Hari was literally part of V-Vehicle and that was funded by a billionaire and that went under. He even was part of Envira systems and that was another debacle. ESG Engineering went from 50 employees to almost shutting down. So Pauls partner was probably not the best choice as his track record was not that great when it came to startups. If Elio would have hired an engineering director from a major automotive manufacturer and then a manufacturing engineering director from another, then things might have been different. On the other hand, you can't hire them unless you got the funds. They don't work for free.

Dreams are great but you need the proper funding with a experienced team around you. If not, it will not work for when you are entering a mature industry.

 

[Rickb]

SAY HELLO TO ELIO: FUN. UNIQUE. YOU. was a Rock Solid Elio Marketing plan, perfectly executed. I give them credit. Marketing is less costly than R&D, requiring less physical space, parts, fabrication equipment, and labor. The only error was my early on judgement in thinking they might actually get it done right after acquiring access to a physical manufacturing facility, but in reality that old GM plant was the key part of the rock solid marketing plan.

Note: Samuel, Arcimoto and Meccanica have legal teams that advise the use of forward looking statements, but I continue to trust both startups because they have met R&D production milestones along the way to reaching the production start line........usually took a bit longer than their targets, but they got it done. Reality is they could both go belly up, burning through cash, before whatever the holdups are to the official start of retail production.

 

[RSchneider]

SAY HELLO TO ELIO: FUN. UNIQUE. YOU. was a Rock Solid Elio Marketing plan, perfectly executed. I give them credit. Marketing is less costly than R&D, requiring less physical space, parts, fabrication equipment, and labor. The only error was my early on judgement in thinking they might actually get it done right after acquiring access to a physical manufacturing facility, but in reality that old GM plant was the key part of the rock solid marketing plan.
View attachment 23624

Note: Samuel, Arcimoto and Meccanica have legal teams that advise the use of forward looking statements, but I continue to trust both startups because they have met R&D production milestones along the way to reaching the production start line........usually took a bit longer than their targets, but they got it done. Reality is they could both go belly up, burning through cash, before whatever the holdups are to the official start of retail production.

The plant was great for selling the car because the question of, "Where are you going to build it?" was answered. The error was that they had to start paying a lease and payments for $25M worth of equipment in the plant. So here we are in 2019 and they have been paying for a lease and loan payments for something that they never used for more than advertising. Plus agreeing to the jobs plan which is costing them $7.5M. The plant that raised $28M for them in reservations cost them over $25M (I don't know the interest on that loan) just for the equipment and over $200K/month for the lease and then the $7.5M fine. So, that plant cost them way more than the money they brought in.

If you look at FUV, they were operating out of an old pizza parlor for along time. No plant at all. They got to the point where they needed to then move onto a plant (which I would have chosen Leeds, AL because that would have been perfect for them) but that's what they got to deal with now. Not all companies make the best decisions but you can't have the bad ones outnumber the good ones. Soon it'll cost you.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

SAY HELLO TO ELIO: FUN. UNIQUE. YOU. was a Rock Solid Elio Marketing plan, perfectly executed. I give them credit. Marketing is less costly than R&D, requiring less physical space, parts, fabrication equipment, and labor. The only error was my early on judgement in thinking they might actually get it done right after acquiring access to a physical manufacturing facility, but in reality that old GM plant was the key part of the rock solid marketing plan.
View attachment 23624

Note: Samuel, Arcimoto and Meccanica have legal teams that advise the use of forward looking statements, but I continue to trust both startups because they have met R&D production milestones along the way to reaching the production start line........usually took a bit longer than their targets, but they got it done. Reality is they could both go belly up, burning through cash, before whatever the holdups are to the official start of retail production.

Rick, I really hope you get your FUV, and that you get it this year. Having said that, even though Arcimoto and Meccanica have made more progress than Elio, and burned through less money, the one thing they all have in common is that none of them have ever met a promised production deadline. Meccanica is 3 years past their big "start of production". Arcimoto is at least a couple of years behind. I don't trust either of them (competence or integrity) because of the same track record that both of us are looking at. Hopefully I am wrong, and both companies reach (at least) limited production. There are a lot of good people that put trust in a number of 3-wheeler startups over the years. I would like to see the market niche survive.