The Elio Engine

[AriLea]

interesting .... my impression has been that the lack of two rear tires makes the tendency for the inside front tire on a reverse trike break loose in a hard turn .... even to the point of lifting off of the ground .... while that can be true for conventional 4 wheel vehicles, I was given to believe that the problem is greater with a reverse trike

If you lift the front wheel off in a 3WV you are microseconds from roll-over.
That is a CG issue, more or less. If you give the trike a lower CG, you can compensate. This is where the TriHawk did well, it was extremely low, having no hardtop etc.
But yes, you are right if the CG is the same, and well above the wheel center. But if near or lower, they now are very close to each other. But the thing with the three, is there IS no sway bar possible. Body roll will be what it is. (low CG reduces body roll) So a firm suspension is advised. Often that is what you are seeing, body roll, not wheel lift. OK, maybe inside tire de-cohesion(err light loading, not quite off the ground).
To remove that effect in a turn(body roll), the indy-cycle type trikes, often have a 'unitized' front suspension, no-unequal compression possible. The more mass you have offset from the centerline, the less likely you can use that suspension method.(you'll break something)

Anyways, the Elio has a very low CG. This reduces it's differences to the 4wheel FWD car on these maters of HP vs handling, body roll and inside tire lift. CG is -everything- in a trike.

I'll add, you can put a sway bar on the Elio, but it will provide a different functionality compared to a sway bar on a 4 wheeler. On the Elio, it just keeps the car more flat, -unitizing- left and right. On the 4 it is transferring tire loading front or rear for the best over/under steer characteristics. Ok and does limit body roll, but that's not the point of it.

 

[JEBar]

would it be safe to believe that EM will equip its trikes with a suspension designed to best accommodate the power of the engine they install .... if so, it would seem logical that upping the power will require upgrading the suspension as well

 

[Bert]

There is a sway bar on the P4, no reason to believe there won't be one on the P5 and up.
The sway bars keep the vehicle more level by limiting the amount of weight transfer in the corners. It does this by transfering a portion of more down force, or up force for that matter, to the opposite wheel.
You wouldn't have to drive far in any vehicle that has no sway bar, in order to appreciate what it does!

 

[bowers baldwin]

There is a sway bar on the P4, no reason to believe there won't be one on the P5 and up.
The sway bars keep the vehicle more level by limiting the amount of weight transfer in the corners. It does this by transfering a portion of more down force, or up force for that matter, to the opposite wheel.
You wouldn't have to drive far in any vehicle that has no sway bar, in order to appreciate what it does!

So if I am driving on my door handles when I go around corners, then I might not have them? (57 Chevy)

 

[Bert]

So if I am driving on my door handles when I go around corners, then I might not have them? (57 Chevy)

Yup. Or, the idler link bushings on each end are wore out.
A LOT of the older cars didn't have them, as high speeds were limited to short sections of safe highways. Higher horsepower and NASCAR changed how Americans drove and used their cars.
Before I forget, the "pull rod" on the Elio also assists a LOT when cornering. The action of it pulling down at the TOP of the spindle assembly of the outside tire when cornering, keeps that tire more upright and stable. The addition of the sway bar should make the Elio a very reliable ride in the corners.
The only thing I wonder about, and only time will tell, is the outside edges of the rear tire tread will round off a bit quicker than on a 4 wheel automobile. I wonder if this will/may cause any traction issues, especially in inclimate weather?

 

[bowers baldwin]

Yup. Or, the idler link bushings on each end are wore out.
A LOT of the older cars didn't have them, as high speeds were limited to short sections of safe highways. Higher horsepower and NASCAR changed how Americans drove and used their cars.
Before I forget, the "pull rod" on the Elio also assists a LOT when cornering. The action of it pulling down at the TOP of the spindle assembly of the outside tire when cornering, keeps that tire more upright and stable. The addition of the sway bar should make the Elio a very reliable ride in the corners.
The only thing I wonder about, and only time will tell, is the outside edges of the rear tire tread will round off a bit quicker than on a 4 wheel automobile. I wonder if this will/may cause any traction issues, especially in inclimate weather?

I had a 57 Plymouth Savoy, that handled great (sway bars!), as far as tire wear, I've had the same tires on my beetle for like 12 years now,and I beat it like a rented mule, and they look NEW (ok the drive tire is warn down a bit from hole shots), but considering how light the Elio is, I am guessing dry-rot before I wear the tires down.

 

[W. WIllie]

Tire wear on "most" FWD cars are a 2-1 ratio. Fronts will wear twice as fast as rear.
With the 3 wheels and less weight, it may be around a 3-1 ration.
You will get more "rounding" wear on the front, vs. the rear.
(My experience in the G1)
Willie

 

[Ian442]

Willie my Sunfire FWD is tough on the fronts...Right now that it's raining again its powerslide time

 

[Muzhik]

Regarding CG (Center of Gravity)...
Back in the early 60's the British and French were busy working on the Concorde, the first commercial SST (Super Sonic Transport). Khrushchev gave orders that the USSR was to beat the Capitalists, and so the KGB began a very intense period of industrial espionage. The story I heard is that the pressure was so great, they got sloppy, and the British and French security services learned about it.

Rather than arresting the spies, they did one better. They drew up a set of engineering diagrams that were just like the original EXCEPT ... the CG was positioned about 3 meters behind where it would be on the actual production plane. This would not have affected any of the flight characteristics, except when it slowed down to come in for a landing. Then it would be as unstable as Ivan the Terrible. The spies were then allowed to find and copy these bogus plans.

Fast forward a few years ... the Concordsky (as it was nicknamed, can't remember the official designation), looking remarkably like the Concorde, made its official debut two weeks before the Concord. Go, USSR. Khrushchev (and the USSR) basked in the glory until the Paris Air Show that year, when the entire world would get to see the greatness of the Soviet Union. The plane crashed in Paris coming in for a landing just before the show started.

After that (and a number of other near-crashes internationally), the plane was used solely for travel within the USSR, and later was converted to be used only for cargo, before it was quietly mothballed.

 

[Rob Croson]

...I beat it like a rented mule ...

I lol'd.