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The Elio Automatic Transmission

Sethodine

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Sethodine, "the electric car best investment ever" says alot. Your positive experience with the Leaf EV is helping with my decision to go all in on the SRK everyday electric. No gas ever and little if any routine vehicle maintenance except for normal wear brakes, tires, and battery replacement. I like the idea of an around town 'most' everyday electric commuter. Thanks.

Buying an EV has been a bit of a crash-course in new terminology though. Before buying an SRK, I'd make sure it has a CHAdeMO fast-charging socket, in addition to the standard SAE J1772 socket type. The J1772 is what most public charge stations have, and should fully charge the 12kWh battery pack in the SRK in 3-4.5* hours. The CHAdeMO socket is for DC fast-charging, and would probably fully charge the SRK in 15 minutes, which would make long trips practical with some planning. I bring this up because my Leaf doesn't have the CHAdeMO port, and sometimes I really wish it did. All well.

*Charge time depends highly on the size of your inverter. I'm not sure what size of inverter the SRK will have, but the common 3.3kW inverters will take about 4.5 hours to fully charge, while a 6.6kW or 7.2kW will take significantly less time. But this also depends on the amperage of the charging station itself. And if your charging at home on 120v, you can probably expect an 11 hour charge time for a fully depleted battery. So as you can see, it's a whole new world of stuff to learn.

I won't pick on BPVs (Battery Powered Vehicles).
They do have their place in the greater scheme of things.
My concern is this:
..."Three and a half years after the first Nissan Leaf went on sale, Nissan has announced the cost of a replacement lithium-ion battery pack for its electric car. It's a surprisingly low $5,499 (after a $1,000 credit for turning in the old pack, which is required), plus installation fees and tax.Jun 28, 2014."...
(Source: Google "cost to replace battery in a Leaf")
It appears you will pay on one end or the other.
My choice is pay as you go (gas).

However, what you left out was that the replacement battery will be whatever is going into the latest version of the Leaf. The 2017 model is supposed to have a range of around 170 miles (doubling my current range), and battery technology will only improve from here on out. With how we drive the car, my battery won't need replacing until around 2023. Who knows what kind of magic battery technology we'll have by then?

You have the ability to buy a 2012 Leaf? That's not poor.
Not even close.

A poor person would buy a $500-1000 clunker or even worse, suffer public transportation.

I have good credit for my age/area, and it helps that both me and my wife work and don't have kids yet. We were spending about $200 a month on car repairs for our clunkers anyways, so between that and the fuel savings, it made sense financially. The thing about EVs is that most people are still wary of them, which means that they are the same or cheaper on the Used market than ICE cars.

I suppose the last couple years have been good to us, but we're still technically under the poverty line. The other side of that equation is that we don't spend money on (much) stupid stuff, and we save wherever we can. For instance, she volunteers at a local food charity organization, which allows us to shop from their stock for a flat rate of $35 a month. We can afford a Leaf because we have a financial discipline that I don't see in most other millenials our age. But commuting in the Elio (once it's paid off) will still be about equal to a $0.50/hr raise for me.


So, maybe $8k out the door? Ouch... How often do you have to do this? If it's based on charge cycles (most likely), then those of us who drive more miles would be replacing it a lot more often. An extra $8K bill every three years sure makes an electric car much less attractive.

Hmm... Nissan's warranty for the battery is 100,000 or 8 years. At 33mpg, I would use 3,030 gallons of gas to go 100,000. So, $8,000 spread out over 3,030 gallons of gas is an equivalent of $2.64 per gallon. Plus the cost of all that electricity that I have to spend to charge the batteries. (Not sure how much that would cost.) So to save money driving a Leaf (ignoring the fact that it doesn't have the battery capacity I need to make even a single trip back and forth to work) gas would have to cost more than $2.64.

That's a significant hidden cost to driving an electric car.

April of 2015 saw the first 2011 Leaf hit 200,000 miles, and it still had like 85% of it's battery capacity. This was a guy who commuted to work, charging twice a day (at home and at work), sometimes more by leapfrogging between stations. Since my wife's use is significantly lower, and we aren't using the DC fast charging, I expect it will be many years before we get to that point. In the mean time, we're only spending between $25 and $35 per month on electricity to fuel it. :) And no oil changes. And no transmission that can fail. And regenerative braking means longer lasting friction pads...etc. There was even a study done on this very subject. :)
 

Rob Croson

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Good to hear that the batteries are lasting so long. I always wonder about the environmental impact of the used batteries. Sure they can be recycled, but even recycling has its own environmental impact and costs.

Revolutionary technologies also come with high prices, so I wouldn't expect to see relief from that avenue, in the near-term.
 

Sethodine

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Good to hear that the batteries are lasting so long. I always wonder about the environmental impact of the used batteries. Sure they can be recycled, but even recycling has its own environmental impact and costs.

Revolutionary technologies also come with high prices, so I wouldn't expect to see relief from that avenue, in the near-term.

Honestly, I think battery-powered electric cars are kind of a transitional technology. I see the future electric car as running off of wireless induction charging via the highway, with a compact hydrogen fuel cell for the hop between highway and home. The fuel cell is then re-charged at home from a home fueling station that is connected to rooftop solar (either directly, or via the Grid from all the other rooftop solar panels out there).

This sort of a setup would solve the catch-22 that is rooftop solar: "How do you charge a car at night, when all of the electricity is produced during the day?" Answer: the electricity produced during the day is immediately used to generate hydrogen fuel, which is then stored for night-time refueling or power generation. This is an inherently inefficient process, but makes best use of widespread solar power; the power grid is NOT an infinite-capacity battery!
 

Frim

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Honestly, I think battery-powered electric cars are kind of a transitional technology. I see the future electric car as running off of wireless induction charging via the highway, with a compact hydrogen fuel cell for the hop between highway and home. The fuel cell is then re-charged at home from a home fueling station that is connected to rooftop solar (either directly, or via the Grid from all the other rooftop solar panels out there).

This sort of a setup would solve the catch-22 that is rooftop solar: "How do you charge a car at night, when all of the electricity is produced during the day?" Answer: the electricity produced during the day is immediately used to generate hydrogen fuel, which is then stored for night-time refueling or power generation. This is an inherently inefficient process, but makes best use of widespread solar power; the power grid is NOT an infinite-capacity battery!
I think I am missing a cog.
If the solar power grid was big enough, The sun is always shining somewhere.
 

Sethodine

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I think I am missing a cog.
If the solar power grid was big enough, The sun is always shining somewhere.

Yup! But that would require that the entire world was sharing an electric grid like they share the Internet. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I don't see that happening before the end of oil.
 

Rob Croson

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Honestly, I think battery-powered electric cars are kind of a transitional technology. I see the future electric car as running off of wireless induction charging via the highway, with a compact hydrogen fuel cell for the hop between highway and home. The fuel cell is then re-charged at home from a home fueling station that is connected to rooftop solar (either directly, or via the Grid from all the other rooftop solar panels out there).
I'm with you on that. If induction delivery of power is efficient enough, and able to be metered accurately (or provided free), that would make electric cars much more viable to those of us that are outside the current range. Also, reduce the expense and reliance on batteries. (So long as the induction grid doesn't go down....)
 

John-b-gone

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The life span of a lithium ion battery is determined by age acerbated by heat. Not by charging cycles. I also remember reading that if every car in the U.S. used a l.i. battery it would be comparable to the cost of oil, the money would be going to Russia and South America, since the US has mined all of it's l.i. I did however here hear of new source for l.i. in this country but haven't heard much since. I tend to agree that l.i. is an interim tech.
 
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