The Elio Automatic Transmission

[Ty]

Anyone know the gear ratio and if it's 3 or four speed automatic.

The Manual transmission is the ONLY transmission in the Elio. It will be either controlled with the clutch pedal and gear shift like a regular good old standard or it will be controlled via some actuators and software. Either way, the transmission, final drive ratio, number of gears, etc. is the same... since it's the same transmission.

The choice is "Manual transmission" or "Automatic Manual Transmission"... The innards are the same.

 

[MajorXx]

The Manual transmission is the ONLY transmission in the Elio. It will be either controlled with the clutch pedal and gear shift like a regular good old standard or it will be controlled via some actuators and software. Either way, the transmission, final drive ratio, number of gears, etc. is the same... since it's the same transmission.

The choice is "Manual transmission" or "Automatic Manual Transmission"... The innards are the same.

While the manual and automatic may have the same gear ratios, I cannot understand how all the manual transmission internal parts will be usable in the ATM. A manual transmission has one clutch and I believe the ATM is expected to be the typical ATM two clutch design.

 

[DWR]

While the manual and automatic may have the same gear ratios, I cannot understand how all the manual transmission internal parts will be usable in the ATM. A manual transmission has one clutch and I believe the ATM is expected to be the typical ATM two clutch design.

Check out post #2, 7th "Q" down. According to Paul, it will be a single clutch AMT.

http://www.elioowners.com/threads/elio-motors-town-hall-meeting-with-paul-elio-august-16-2014.2617/

 

[Brainmatter]

While the manual and automatic may have the same gear ratios, I cannot understand how all the manual transmission internal parts will be usable in the ATM. A manual transmission has one clutch and I believe the ATM is expected to be the typical ATM two clutch design.

I'm leaning toward it being a dual clutch auto configuration as well, but it is possible to be an 'automatic' manual. Toyota did this with the MR2 spyder; it was a true manual transmission with the clutch and gearshift mechanism controlled via solenoids/actuators by the computer. This is more expensive and complicated than a modern dual clutch transmission though.
I think Paul may have misspoke and it will be a dual clutch set-up. Unless they got some leftover Toyota stuff cheap. But that Toyota set-up was pretty poor: laggy shifts, a little jerky not smooth at all. It was neat at the time, but just not very good by todays standards.

 

[Ty]

While the manual and automatic may have the same gear ratios, I cannot understand how all the manual transmission internal parts will be usable in the ATM. A manual transmission has one clutch and I believe the ATM is expected to be the typical ATM two clutch design.

I have heard two clutch design as well. Wet or dry? Dry is good for low torque/horsepower... Either way, I'm pretty sure I read that the transmissions would be essentially the same and Vassalo told me that other than a couple of servos they were essentially the same transmission. Now, he's a PR guru and not necessarily the Tech guru so he could be mistaken or perhaps he overexagerated the similarities.

Okay, I'm not far off base - single clutch...

Q. Has an AMT product been selected, If so who is it?
A: No, still in discussions.
Q. Can the AMT be flat towed in neutral?
A. Yes, it's a standard transmission. That's something that came up in the tour that people didn't know. You actually get better mileage in our automatic than our standard. Because it's a standard transmission both ways, and one way there's a computer shifting and the other way is a human being.
Q. Single or Dual Clutch AMT?
A. Single.

 

[Brainmatter]

I'm leaning toward it being a dual clutch auto configuration as well, but it is possible to be an 'automatic' manual. Toyota did this with the MR2 spyder; it was a true manual transmission with the clutch and gearshift mechanism controlled via solenoids/actuators by the computer. This is more expensive and complicated than a modern dual clutch transmission though.

I have heard two clutch design as well. Wet or dry? Dry is good for low torque/horsepower... Either way, I'm pretty sure I read that the transmissions would be essentially the same and Vassalo told me that other than a couple of servos they were essentially the same transmission. Now, he's a PR guru and not necessarily the Tech guru so he could be mistaken or perhaps he overexagerated the similarities.

Okay, I'm not far off base - single clutch...

Q. Has an AMT product been selected, If so who is it?
A: No, still in discussions.
Q. Can the AMT be flat towed in neutral?
A. Yes, it's a standard transmission. That's something that came up in the tour that people didn't know. You actually get better mileage in our automatic than our standard. Because it's a standard transmission both ways, and one way there's a computer shifting and the other way is a human being.
Q. Single or Dual Clutch AMT?
A. Single.

Sounds like their mind is made up then. I wonder if it will do all the shifting automatically or if the gears still have to be commanded like in the old Toyota MR2 automanual? If they used a dual clutch sequential trans I'd definitly buy the auto. But with an actual manual albeit controlled by the ECM, based on my experience, I'll stick with the regular manual.
I only use the MR2 as an example because it is the only true auto/manual that I am aware of in a relatively high volume mass produced car. Were there others?
Back in 2002 when Toyota used it I think it cost around $800.00 for the auto/manual. Costs have not come down due to economies of scale I don't think. It wasn't a widely used system.

 

[Ty]

Sounds like their mind is made up then. I wonder if it will do all the shifting automatically or if the gears still have to be commanded like in the old Toyota MR2 automanual? If they used a dual clutch sequential trans I'd definitly buy the auto. But with an actual manual albeit controlled by the ECM, based on my experience, I'll stick with the regular manual.
I only use the MR2 as an example because it is the only true auto/manual that I am aware of in a relatively high volume mass produced car. Were there others?
Back in 2002 when Toyota used it I think it cost around $800.00 for the auto/manual. Costs have not come down due to economies of scale I don't think. It wasn't a widely used system.

I wouldn't pick the AMT unless I got to drive one first. If it behaved, it might be worth getting just for the ... nah, manual will be too much fun. I've been looking at Protean's electric hub motor and I'm thinking about that back tire... that hub motor puts out 72hp (100hp max) and would definitely ramp up the fun of the Elio. man, 55+100 off the line... It'd definitely be quicker.

 

[Brainmatter]

Here is a very good article that explains all the different transmissions. It's not technical, but I know a few technical folks who should definitely read it!
http://www.caradvice.com.au/278721/...ual-v-automatic-v-dual-clutch-v-cvt-v-others/
I agree with the author regarding the electronically controlled manual transmission. It's not a good option. Please, please put a cheap dual clutch trans in the elio!

 

[Brainmatter]

I wouldn't pick the AMT unless I got to drive one first. If it behaved, it might be worth getting just for the ... nah, manual will be too much fun. I've been looking at Protean's electric hub motor and I'm thinking about that back tire... that hub motor puts out 72hp (100hp max) and would definitely ramp up the fun of the Elio. man, 55+100 off the line... It'd definitely be quicker.

Now where to hide the batteries? Or maybe just a small battery set. Use it like electric nitrous!

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Thanks, this is very good information to have! This answers exactly why Elio Motors would be interested in this AMT as it is much less expensive and more fuel efficient than either the CVT or AT.

These savings do apparently come at the expensive of some jerky upshifts, not surprising for an AMT focused on fuel efficiency, however apparently how you drive it does make a difference and there are ways to drive it smoothly which is good to know for anyone wanting or needing the automatic. It sounds like the AMT runs smoothly if you drive it like a manual in terms of easing on the throttle while in traffic and lifting off the throttle to upshift while accelerating. I think many people can adapt to this if it means better fuel efficiency at a lower price.

are any of these transmissions similar to "paddle shift", my MRS toyota has no clutch, but i must upshift by paddle or stick, downshifts only when stopped without going thru gears??