The Elio Automatic Transmission

[pj rogers]

I think the elio will have a AMT not a cvt...smart cars were all equipped with the AMT...big difference!

 

[Lil4X]

I saw an episode of "Wheeler Dealers" last night where they restored a late-fifties Citroen 2CV. In some ways this car might be considered a spiritual ancestor of the Elio in that it was simple, inexpensive to purchase and operate, and as one of its design criteria, was targeted at the small French farmer who could carry eggs to market (or a full-grown pig in place of the back seat). OK, it's French - who must have cornered the market on weird many years ago.

Considered spectacularly ugly by many, the Citroen 2CV was a landmark in post-war Europe's recovering auto industry - along with the Fiat Topolino and the Volkswagen. It was engineered to be practical rather than a technology showcase.

The 2CV was one of the longest-lived production models in Europe, having been manufactured with occasional minor changes, from 1948 to 1990, with sales over 5 million. It began with a 2-cyl opposed air cooled 375cc 9hp engine (in the immediate post-war years) to a honking 602cc 2-cyl that produced 35hp toward the end of the model run. It was built as a DIY-maintenance vehicle, serviceable by any shade-tree mechanic or farmer with a little mechanical curiosity (if no expertise). It would haul four people in its rubber-suspended sling seats that look more like cheap lawn chairs than automotive seating, but you can't argue with success.

The transmission is a simple 4-speed with reverse, however it was advertised as a 3-speed with surmultipliée (that's overdrive to you and me). The manufacturers didn't want to tout 4 gears because they thought the public would be confused by anything over three speeds forward.

What is rather unique about the 2CV's powertrain is the clutch. It is a standard foot pedal-operated clutch used for disconnecting the engine while changing gears, but (here's the uniquely French part of the engineering) it's also a centrifugal clutch at idle. Lift off the gas, step on the brake in traffic, and the engine drops to idle, disengaging the clutch. You can shift to first without using the clutch, then as you open the throttle and the engine revs, the clutch engages softly and you pull away. You only use the clutch pedal to shift up or down. EM, are you listening?

Although the engine was small, and the car only weighed 1300 lbs, it was a serious step up from the prevailing individual transportation of the day - the bicycle - and not a whole lot more complex.

 

[Avards]

I think the elio will have a AMT not a cvt...smart cars were all equipped with the AMT...big difference!

pj:

In Nashville a while back, I was told by Jerome that they were to use an AMT. I found the article interesting from the stand point of some developmental (mainly clutch) issues. I'm also curious about how durable the AMT will be when continually dealing with congested commuter traffic.

There's some really interesting history behind the development and marketing of the CVT. An engineer named Van Dorne, DAF, and Volvo. It's almost as interesting as when VW thought that they'd bought Rolls Royce.

Have a good one,

wr

 

[pj rogers]

Go to you tube and check out the Suzuki celerio..it has the AMT, looks pretty good. Jerome in OKC said they are trying to keep the auto under $1000..and if they hold the $6800 for more than two years, the margins will have to be made up in the optional equipment..not that hard to figure out..I'm guessing about $800.
Oh, your engine question is very interesting, I thought the same way..Build the first 50,000 with a 3 cylinder for say Suzuki..(good durable motor) and while you have 50k elios out there, then work on the IAV motor. heck, the IAV motor is german anyway. We all could be waiting for our call to pick up our elio right now, with a 4 speed auto backing it up. Oh well. !

 

[dgruis]

Data should always to priority over opinion, that is if price matters.

 

[ctfink]

Unfortunately my wife doesn't drive stick and refuses to learn, which is a good thing because she doesn't drive my 6-speed Veloster. I will have to opt for the auto on the Elio to keep peace in the house. I see that P4 has an auto in it, but it still does not have the IAV engine. I'm sure the auto came with the donor engine. We'll have to wait for the first P4 clone I guess.

JRM, I speak your language because my wife also does not drive a stick. I will wait to test the Elio with both transmissions to see which is most comfortable. I enjoyed my Triumph TR6 for many moons but the arrangement & settings of clutch & shifter were supreme for crusing on the 'S'. I may need to pur both (his-Licorice & hers-silver)

 

[Alex Bottinelli]

I think the elio will have a AMT not a cvt...smart cars were all equipped with the AMT...big difference!

The Elio will have a single clutch automated manual transmission, for those who opt for it. As someone who owns a 2009 smart fortwo with 204k miles, I can attest that this transmission is quite sturdy. I am still on the original clutch and it has never failed to shift correctly. The big issue with the transmission is comfort. People who are used to automatic transmissions are not going to like how it shifts, at least initially, as shifts are extremely noticeable. Those who drive manual transmissions on a regular basis, however, may not care in the slightest (as is the case with me).

Single clutch AMTs cause acceleration to pause for a second between shifts, just like a regular manual transmission does. When you compare this AMT to America's beloved automatic transmissions, when it comes to comfort and smooth shifting, the AMT is going to lose. However, if you instead compare it to a standard manual transmission, it is the smoothest shifting transmission I've ever driven (albeit, not the fastest). I don't know of anyone, including myself, who can shift a manual transmission 100% smoothly, 100% of the time. The single clutch AMT does.

I had asked Elio Motors about offering a dual clutch AMT (which would eliminate the pause between shifts) but they said it was too cost prohibitive and would require raising the price of the Elio too high. Perhaps in a year or two, a good price point could be hit for a dual clutch option.

 

[Johnny Acree]

The Elio will have a single clutch automated manual transmission, for those who opt for it. As someone who owns a 2009 smart fortwo with 204k miles, I can attest that this transmission is quite sturdy. I am still on the original clutch and it has never failed to shift correctly. The big issue with the transmission is comfort. People who are used to automatic transmissions are not going to like how it shifts, at least initially, as shits are extremely noticeable. Those who drive manual transmissions on a regular basis, however, may not care in the slightest (as is the case with me).

Single clutch AMTs cause acceleration to pause for a second between shifts, just like a regular manual transmission does. When you compare this AMT to America's beloved automatic transmissions, when it comes to comfort and smooth shifting, the AMT is going to lose. However, if you instead compare it to a standard manual transmission, it is the smoothest shifting transmission I've ever driven (albeit, not the fastest). I don't know of anyone, including myself, who can shift a manual transmission 100% smoothly, 100% of the time. The single clutch AMT does.

I had asked Elio Motors about offering a dual clutch AMT (which would eliminate the pause between shifts) but they said it was too cost prohibitive and would require raising the price of the Elio too high. Perhaps in a year or two, a good price point could be hit for a dual clutch option.

I only have 30K on my smart and you are correct. The smart trans is good. I have found that the people who take time to learn to work with the trans like it very much. Yes there is a learning curve. I have found that if I lift off the gas peddle when I want the trans to shift, the shift is perfect.

 

[Brian1362]

The Elio will have a single clutch automated manual transmission, for those who opt for it. As someone who owns a 2009 smart fortwo with 204k miles, I can attest that this transmission is quite sturdy. I am still on the original clutch and it has never failed to shift correctly. The big issue with the transmission is comfort. People who are used to automatic transmissions are not going to like how it shifts, at least initially, as shifts are extremely noticeable. Those who drive manual transmissions on a regular basis, however, may not care in the slightest (as is the case with me).

Single clutch AMTs cause acceleration to pause for a second between shifts, just like a regular manual transmission does. When you compare this AMT to America's beloved automatic transmissions, when it comes to comfort and smooth shifting, the AMT is going to lose. However, if you instead compare it to a standard manual transmission, it is the smoothest shifting transmission I've ever driven (albeit, not the fastest). I don't know of anyone, including myself, who can shift a manual transmission 100% smoothly, 100% of the time. The single clutch AMT does.

I had asked Elio Motors about offering a dual clutch AMT (which would eliminate the pause between shifts) but they said it was too cost prohibitive and would require raising the price of the Elio too high. Perhaps in a year or two, a good price point could be hit for a dual clutch option.

Did this info come from Elio? I'm just wandering, not trying to stir a pot.

 

[raybonz]

The Elio will have a single clutch automated manual transmission, for those who opt for it. As someone who owns a 2009 smart fortwo with 204k miles, I can attest that this transmission is quite sturdy. I am still on the original clutch and it has never failed to shift correctly. The big issue with the transmission is comfort. People who are used to automatic transmissions are not going to like how it shifts, at least initially, as shifts are extremely noticeable. Those who drive manual transmissions on a regular basis, however, may not care in the slightest (as is the case with me).

Single clutch AMTs cause acceleration to pause for a second between shifts, just like a regular manual transmission does. When you compare this AMT to America's beloved automatic transmissions, when it comes to comfort and smooth shifting, the AMT is going to lose. However, if you instead compare it to a standard manual transmission, it is the smoothest shifting transmission I've ever driven (albeit, not the fastest). I don't know of anyone, including myself, who can shift a manual transmission 100% smoothly, 100% of the time. The single clutch AMT does.

I had asked Elio Motors about offering a dual clutch AMT (which would eliminate the pause between shifts) but they said it was too cost prohibitive and would require raising the price of the Elio too high. Perhaps in a year or two, a good price point could be hit for a dual clutch option.

Alex that was an informative post which makes me feel better about the single clutch AMT.. Your post should help people understand what to expect.. Thanks and welcome to the forum!

Ray