Start Stop System

[Snick]

I drove an Audi A1 2-door hatchback through Europe which had stop-start. I really liked it. You had control over it--if you knew the light or stop would be really short, you could just keep the clutch depressed and prevent it from stopping. Otherwise, put it in neutral and it would stop.

But for generation 1 of the Elio, I'd suggest not having stop-start as it would increase cost and add delays. They need to perform a design freeze 2 months ago and BUILD the damned thing.

Generation 2 Elio can have a compressed air stop/start system.

 

[outsydthebox]

Interesting thread! A lot of knowledgeable people here. Like many here, I check my mpg's on every fill up.For the sake of my family, I've owned a few mini vans...hard to "hyper mile" an automatic, especially when the odometer stops moving when the engine stops. Some observations between 2 that I owned: 2000 Windstar w/80k miles- best I ever got was 23mpg, with 5 people and luggage on a hitch rack. Trans started messing up at 135K miles. We got saved when a storm dropped a tree on it. With the insurance money, we got a 2000 Chevy Venture (Warner Bros) with 93k miles. Same 5 people (kids were bigger, tho), hitch rack & luggage on the back. With my wife driving (with cruise) it got 25 to 27mpg. Me driving (no cruise), We got a best of 31.2 ! and I could get 30 regularly. We drove it to over 230K miles. Blown head gasket "forced retirement". I plan to fix it.

My hope for the Elio is, they will get it into production, and make change later. There is sooo much improvement possible, that is hidden from us (by the big three & big oil) because of greed, My hat goes off to EM! Everyone needs to watch "GASHOLE"

 

[carzes]

This is true only here in the states. Around the globe start/stop has rapidly become standard fare across the price spectrum. With modern drive by wire systems start/stop is purely a software feature.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

"standard fare across the price spectrum" is why you can't get a car for less than $20,000 in the US. But it has power-folding mirrors!

 

[Lil4X]

"standard fare across the price spectrum" is why you can't get a car for less than $20,000 in the US. But it has power-folding mirrors!

As I understand it, a few options like power folding mirrors are required in Japan, and that's why so many models arrive on our shores with them. Even economy models have folding mirrors now if they're going to be marketed in Japan - of course most of the ones we see don't have the power feature.

 

[carzes]

As I understand it, a few options like power folding mirrors are required in Japan, and that's why so many models arrive on our shores with them. Even economy models have folding mirrors now if they're going to be marketed in Japan - of course most of the ones we see don't have the power feature.

Sorry, I almost posted a long-winded response to this issue before realizing that it's getting far afield of the point of this thread, So I'll table my less-than-humble opinion of mandated pseudo-stupid features on cars.
The question of a stop-start system still falls under the category of 'Keep It Simple And Get It In Production!' I would much rather drive an Elio today without stop/start system than spend another year in my current gas-sucker which also has no stop/start.
As far as the system itself, I don't think there are any major savings to it. It's only beneficial in certain situations where you are motoring happily along, come to a stop for a long enough time to be relevent, and then continue merrily on your way. an efficient engine at idle simply does not use much gas. This motor would probably idle for DAYS on a gallon of gas. I think the whole concept from the beginning was more of a feel-good option than a real gas saver.

 

[Joshua Caldwell]

I can understand the requirements for a backup camera coming in 2018, but I can't figure out why power folding mirrors would be desirable, much less a requirement. Could someone explain?

 

[ArthurKent]

I intensely dislike the way stop/start systems function, especially in creeping traffic.
Nor would very much be gained in this particular vehicle.

 

[carzes]

I can understand the requirements for a backup camera coming in 2018, but I can't figure out why power folding mirrors would be desirable, much less a requirement. Could someone explain?

In some places of the world with very high population density and very narrow streets in order to save space and not loose your mirror you have to fold the mirrors in when you park, and even occasionally while driving to get through a particularly narrow spot. The problem is virtually non-existent in the US, and even in such population dense areas as Europe and Japan I don't think that much of the population facesv the daunting mirror-folding challenge on a daily basis. I used to live in Berlin where this is regular practice and I never once dreamed of a button to fold the mirror, rather than just (heaven forbid) push it in by HAND.

 

[carzes]

I intensely dislike the way stop/start systems function, especially in creeping traffic.
Nor would very much be gained in this particular vehicle.

I think your dead on. I mentioned before that those systems only work in a stop-wait-drive traffic pattern and you nailed the real problem, which is traffic-creep. If traffic would just come to a complete STOP, then drive a stop/start system MIGHT help. But in the real world it doesn't stop. It creeps. The vast majority of engine idle time is not in the 20 seconds at a red light, it's in the endless miles creeping our way through traffic congestion and construction zones, and past accident scenes and gawker's blocks, and all the other things that strand us in endless lines of traffic going from 0 to 10 mph. That's where all the fuel is wasted, as well as the time. And it's the same in EVERY country I've been to, every state and every place where there is enough traffic to cause a tie-up, they will creep along for miles and hours, wasting real fuel, never coming to a complete stop long enough for an engine shut-down to really matter.

 

[Edward]

I think your dead on. I mentioned before that those systems only work in a stop-wait-drive traffic pattern and you nailed the real problem, which is traffic-creep. If traffic would just come to a complete STOP, then drive a stop/start system MIGHT help. But in the real world it doesn't stop. It creeps. The vast majority of engine idle time is not in the 20 seconds at a red light, it's in the endless miles creeping our way through traffic congestion and construction zones, and past accident scenes and gawker's blocks, and all the other things that strand us in endless lines of traffic going from 0 to 10 mph. That's where all the fuel is wasted, as well as the time. And it's the same in EVERY country I've been to, every state and every place where there is enough traffic to cause a tie-up, they will creep along for miles and hours, wasting real fuel, never coming to a complete stop long enough for an engine shut-down to really matter.

Yeah, that sounds like my commute. Funny enough, while I'm the king of red lights, I seem to spend more time stopped on the interstate than at a complete stop for red lights. Usually, just as I come to a stop, the light changes again!