Reservations: 65341 As Of 6/20/2017

[eliothegreat]

This forum, I thought, was for people who want EM to succeed.

There is a difference between constructive criticism from people who want EM to succeed, and criticism from people who want it to fail.

Actually, it started out as a forum of people who thought they were owners (or at least owners-to-be) of a vehicle that they expected to be built. Thus the name "elio owners", rather that "people who want Elio Motors to succeed".

 

[RUCRAYZE]

This forum, I thought, was for people who want EM to succeed.

There is a difference between constructive criticism from people who want EM to succeed, and criticism from people who want it to fail.

Thanks for the ,clarity, it's always refreshing making clear statements with as few words as needed

 

[Elio Amazed]

The technicalities of this site's original mission statement and present mission statement aside...
Good job JEB. I've been here almost a year and this was one of your better posts.

I whole-heartedly want EM to survive. If that doesn't happen, then I hope someone picks up the pieces and produces a million Elios.

Yes there is such a thing called constructive criticism.
My constructive criticism is that Elio motors is consistantly shooting themselves in the foot in regards to their overall PR.
They don't seem to be slowing down in their attempts to sabatoge their own operation, be those attempts intentional or otherwise.
I honestly believe that EM needs a good old kick in the slats in order for them to climb down from their pedestals and change said behavior.

The problem is that every time I point out an example of the wrong path they continue down, I'm all but attacked by "the true believers".
Some have pointed out that the members here are not a good cross-section example of all the potential Elio customers out there.
I agree. Most potential Elio customers are likely to be up to 10x more critical in their assessment of whether to buy than we are.
That's why every move counts, whether you think it does or not. Been there, done that.

Anyone that remembers the story of the king and his new "birthday suit"might get it.
Until someone had the cahones to tell the king they didn't see a set of clothes, but simply saw the king in his underwear, nothing changed.
You are not helping EM's chances for success by pretending any of the following on any level and to any degree:
They are infallable and all knowing, and/or their many mistakes either never happened or are completely understandable and acceptable.
They've made a "few" understandable mistakes, but those mistakes do not, and will not, affect their chances for success significantly.

Though this is an easier crowd for EM to play to (a gross exaggeration)... as many of you have indicated, it might be one they listen to.
Hell, I like to listen to people that tell me everything I do is hunky dory too.
So you may very well have the power to tell them that they need to tighten up that ship before they blow a terminal hole in it.

If you are "supporting" (enabling) them by making sure that you're not criticizing them...
If you continue to make excuses for mistake after mistake after mistake...
If you spend your time here blowing kisses to each other, pretending everything they do is just wonderful...

They'll most likely continue to do exactly what they've been doing.
And that number of 23 reservations per day will continue to be less and less and less.

If you honestly don't think their actions have affected, and don't continue to affect, potential investors...
You need to get away from "your own kind" for a while and spend more time in the rest of the world.
I tried to say that as nicely as I could.

Without all those bullet holes in thier feet, they might have gotten enough to build a few pre-productions by now.
But we'll never know for sure will we? Maybe that's what my esteemed colleague's reference to all those missing emails was about.

Do you want to follow your credo (for some, seemingly your mantra) and by doing so, enable EM to continue to err and fade...
Or do you want them to straighten up, become the company you dream them to be, prosper and produce your damn quality Elio?

Now you know my carefully guarded secret. I do care.

 

[WilliamH]

The technicalities of this site's original mission statement and present mission statement aside...
Good job JEB. I've been here almost a year and this was one of your better posts.

I whole-heartedly want EM to survive. If that doesn't happen, then I hope someone picks up the pieces and produces a million Elios.

Yes there is such a thing called constructive criticism.
My constructive criticism is that Elio motors is consistantly shooting themselves in the foot in regards to their overall PR.
They don't seem to be slowing down in their attempts to sabatoge their own operation, be those attempts intentional or otherwise.
I honestly believe that EM needs a good old kick in the slats in order for them to climb down from their pedestals and change said behavior.

The problem is that every time I point out an example of the wrong path they continue down, I'm all but attacked by "the true believers".
Some have pointed out that the members here are not a good cross-section example of all the potential Elio customers out there.
I agree. Most potential Elio customers are likely to be up to 10x more critical in their assessment of whether to buy than we are.
That's why every move counts, whether you think it does or not. Been there, done that.

If anyone remembers the story of the king and his new "birthday suit", you might get it.
Until someone had the cahones to tell the king they didn't see a set of clothes, but simply saw the king in his underwear, nothing changed.
You are not helping EM's chances for success by pretending any of the following on any level and to any degree:
They are infallable and all knowing, and/or their many mistakes either never happened or are completely understandable and acceptable.
They've made a "few" understandable mistakes, but those mistakes do not, and will not, affect their chances for success significantly.

Though this is an easier crowd for EM to play to (a gross exaggeration)... as many of you have indicated, it might be one they listen to.
Hell, I like to listen to people that tell me everything I do is hunky dory too.
So you may very well have the power to tell them that they need to tighten up that ship before they blow a terminal hole in it.

If you are "supporting" (enabling) them by making sure that you're not criticizing them...
If you continue to make excuses for mistake after mistake after mistake...
If you spend your time here blowing kisses to each other, pretending everything they do is just wonderful...

They'll most likely continue to do exactly what they've been doing.
And that number of 23 reservations per day will continue to be less and less and less.

If you honestly don't think their actions have affected, and don't continue to affect, potential investors...
You need to get away from "your own kind" for a while and spend more time in the rest of the world.
I tried to say that as nicely as I could.

Without all those bullet holes in thier feet, they might have gotten enough to build a few pre-productions by now.
But we'll never know for sure will we? Maybe that's what my esteemed colleague's reference to all those missing emails was about.

Do you want to follow your credo (for some, seemingly your mantra) and by doing so, enable EM to continue to err and fade...
Or do you want them to straighten up, become the company you dream them to be, prosper and produce your damn quality Elio?

Now you know my carefully guarded secret. I do care.

You are entitled to your opinion
However, just because you think something is so, doesn't make it true.
Paul has explained the rational behind the new engine numerous times.
Some on here don't agree and keep bringing up their opinion every nine or ten posts.
They resent it when they are told to get over it.
The rest of us are getting sick and tired of rehearing this issue.

 

[Ty]

The technicalities of this site's original mission statement and present mission statement aside...
Good job JEB. I've been here almost a year and this was one of your better posts.

I whole-heartedly want EM to survive. If that doesn't happen, then I hope someone picks up the pieces and produces a million Elios.

Yes there is such a thing called constructive criticism.
My constructive criticism is that Elio motors is consistantly shooting themselves in the foot in regards to their overall PR.
They don't seem to be slowing down in their attempts to sabatoge their own operation, be those attempts intentional or otherwise.
I honestly believe that EM needs a good old kick in the slats in order for them to climb down from their pedestals and change said behavior.

The problem is that every time I point out an example of the wrong path they continue down, I'm all but attacked by "the true believers".
Some have pointed out that the members here are not a good cross-section example of all the potential Elio customers out there.
I agree. Most potential Elio customers are likely to be up to 10x more critical in their assessment of whether to buy than we are.
That's why every move counts, whether you think it does or not. Been there, done that.

If anyone remembers the story of the king and his new "birthday suit", you might get it.
Until someone had the cahones to tell the king they didn't see a set of clothes, but simply saw the king in his underwear, nothing changed.
You are not helping EM's chances for success by pretending any of the following on any level and to any degree:
They are infallable and all knowing, and/or their many mistakes either never happened or are completely understandable and acceptable.
They've made a "few" understandable mistakes, but those mistakes do not, and will not, affect their chances for success significantly.

Though this is an easier crowd for EM to play to (a gross exaggeration)... as many of you have indicated, it might be one they listen to.
Hell, I like to listen to people that tell me everything I do is hunky dory too.
So you may very well have the power to tell them that they need to tighten up that ship before they blow a terminal hole in it.

If you are "supporting" (enabling) them by making sure that you're not criticizing them...
If you continue to make excuses for mistake after mistake after mistake...
If you spend your time here blowing kisses to each other, pretending everything they do is just wonderful...

They'll most likely continue to do exactly what they've been doing.
And that number of 23 reservations per day will continue to be less and less and less.

If you honestly don't think their actions have affected, and don't continue to affect, potential investors...
You need to get away from "your own kind" for a while and spend more time in the rest of the world.
I tried to say that as nicely as I could.

Without all those bullet holes in thier feet, they might have gotten enough to build a few pre-productions by now.
But we'll never know for sure will we? Maybe that's what my esteemed colleague's reference to all those missing emails was about.

Do you want to follow your credo (for some, seemingly your mantra) and by doing so, enable EM to continue to err and fade...
Or do you want them to straighten up, become the company you dream them to be, prosper and produce your damn quality Elio?

Now you know my carefully guarded secret. I do care.

Fair enough and well said. You are right in that we tend to be overly sensitive to criticism. As "investors" or "future owners" or "dreamers", that's kind of understood. Nobody invests in a company they hope fails, right?

We are biased against criticism. That is always the case. The person asking "Does this dress make me look fat?" is not really looking for an honest answer.

I can't speak for everyone but bear with me for a few lines.

Misinformation on the internet lasts forever. (both ways, of course) It is my understanding that big investors do not want to be part of a huge negative trend. Mr. Moneybags is not going to support "Another fraud of a company filled with lies, deceit, misdirection, and poor management". So, when someone comes out with postings that go along the lines of "Elio will fail", "Elio lies again" (they've been wrong but haven't lied that I've seen), or "It will be impossible for Elio to _______.", I get a little defensive. I worry that although big investors do their homework, they will be swayed by public opinion through erroneous or outright negative conjecture about Elio that it will become very unlikely for Elio to find the support they need.

Tucker was a visionary. The car was truly a giant improvement over available vehicles. When you wash away all the mysticism about Tucker, it boiled down to one journalist's story being reprinted over and over. That story was based on an early version of Tucker's car with an engine that should never have seen the light of day. Despite the fact that that particular engine wasn't destined for production, the article doomed Tucker.

Another example are all the people against Immunizations because they cause Autism. There was ONE study, repeated over and over that was an outright lie... The study was derided by the medical community, Andrew Wakefield was stripped of his license to practice medicine and declared a fraud. nonetheless, some people are still afraid to let their kids get immunizations.

Anyway, enough rambling. I support Elio. I defend Elio when people say they've lied because they haven't. To miss a projection is not a lie. I agree that when the Factory lease was held up and everything came to a grinding halt that Elio had a rough few months. I'll also agree that Paul Elio's next hire should be a Public Relations guru... If they have one, that one should be either fired or redirected. I've been in production (GM of Shreveport) and know things don't always go as planned. Sometimes, we'd think everything was going just fine until the minute they weren't.

I don't mind criticism to a point. I don't like feeling like I'm being told over and over again how stupid I am for putting down $1,000 on an Elio though. I mean in general and not particularly anyone on this forum (articles regurgitating old facts and restating them as proof of lies "Elio said they'd produce in 2014." is one example). I put my money down hoping that it would help start a car company in the US that makes cars that meet our needs versus meeting our wants. I want them to succeed for the betterment of all. And yes, I want an Elio. I'll park my 16MPG truck and let it haul family and lumber when I need it.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Fair enough and well said. You are right in that we tend to be overly sensitive to criticism. As "investors" or "future owners" or "dreamers", that's kind of understood. Nobody invests in a company they hope fails, right?

We are biased against criticism. That is always the case. The person asking "Does this dress make me look fat?" is not really looking for an honest answer.

I can't speak for everyone but bear with me for a few lines.

Misinformation on the internet lasts forever. (both ways, of course) It is my understanding that big investors do not want to be part of a huge negative trend. Mr. Moneybags is not going to support "Another fraud of a company filled with lies, deceit, misdirection, and poor management". So, when someone comes out with postings that go along the lines of "Elio will fail", "Elio lies again" (they've been wrong but haven't lied that I've seen), or "It will be impossible for Elio to _______.", I get a little defensive. I worry that although big investors do their homework, they will be swayed by public opinion through erroneous or outright negative conjecture about Elio that it will become very unlikely for Elio to find the support they need.

Tucker was a visionary. The car was truly a giant improvement over available vehicles. When you wash away all the mysticism about Tucker, it boiled down to one journalist's story being reprinted over and over. That story was based on an early version of Tucker's car with an engine that should never have seen the light of day. Despite the fact that that particular engine wasn't destined for production, the article doomed Tucker.

Another example are all the people against Immunizations because they cause Autism. There was ONE study, repeated over and over that was an outright lie... The study was derided by the medical community, Andrew Wakefield was stripped of his license to practice medicine and declared a fraud. nonetheless, some people are still afraid to let their kids get immunizations.

Anyway, enough rambling. I support Elio. I defend Elio when people say they've lied because they haven't. To miss a projection is not a lie. I agree that when the Factory lease was held up and everything came to a grinding halt that Elio had a rough few months. I'll also agree that Paul Elio's next hire should be a Public Relations guru... If they have one, that one should be either fired or redirected. I've been in production (GM of Shreveport) and know things don't always go as planned. Sometimes, we'd think everything was going just fine until the minute they weren't.

I don't mind criticism to a point. I don't like feeling like I'm being told over and over again how stupid I am for putting down $1,000 on an Elio though. I mean in general and not particularly anyone on this forum (articles regurgitating old facts and restating them as proof of lies "Elio said they'd produce in 2014.". I put my money down hoping that it would help start a car company in the US that makes cars that meet our needs versus meeting our wants. I want them to succeed for the betterment of all. And yes, I want an Elio. I'll park my 16MPG truck and let it haul family and lumber when I need it.

thanks you're speaking for me too
Let's not forget the "scientific" proof that humans are responsible for climate change. One or two "scientists" publish to the delight of deniers, that it's not, and folks use it as their justification that it is not man-made- Then I love the response "Well I'm not a scientist but scientists don't agree", when 98+ % have proven it does, followed by "it's a natural cycle". -

 

[Elio Amazed]

You are entitled to your opinion
However, just because you think something is so, doesn't make it true.
Paul has explained the rational behind the new engine numerous times.
Some on here don't agree and keep bringing up their opinion every nine or ten posts.
They resent it when they are told to get over it.
The rest of us are getting sick and tired of rehearing this issue.

I was as constructive as I could possibly be in my post.
I've never written a word about the decision to build the engine. Not in that post. Not ever.

You've basically said the same thing on a number of occasions.
You've chosen to presume to speak for others... again.
You've again chosen to demonstrate a perfect example of what I just talked about.

I have no desire to banter with someone that I have absolutely no chance to influence.
So, in a way, when I told you that you won a while ago, it was a true statement.
Yet here you are, being no different than a bonafide troll and getting in my face again.

The thing that concerns me most is that you directed that response toward me on a very personal level.
My post was neither directed specifically towards you nor was it a response to one of your posts.
Nor was it within the guidelines recommended in our new moderator's post.
Both the content and the tone were unprovoked and inappropriate.
I'm sick enough of you doing that to people that I'm hitting the "report" button now.
As far as Paul sowing seed etc... That parable was about Christ and the word.

The Button... Listen for it...

 

[Elio Amazed]

Fair enough and well said. You are right in that we tend to be overly sensitive to criticism. As "investors" or "future owners" or "dreamers", that's kind of understood. Nobody invests in a company they hope fails, right?

We are biased against criticism. That is always the case. The person asking "Does this dress make me look fat?" is not really looking for an honest answer.

I can't speak for everyone but bear with me for a few lines.

Misinformation on the internet lasts forever. (both ways, of course) It is my understanding that big investors do not want to be part of a huge negative trend. Mr. Moneybags is not going to support "Another fraud of a company filled with lies, deceit, misdirection, and poor management". So, when someone comes out with postings that go along the lines of "Elio will fail", "Elio lies again" (they've been wrong but haven't lied that I've seen), or "It will be impossible for Elio to _______.", I get a little defensive. I worry that although big investors do their homework, they will be swayed by public opinion through erroneous or outright negative conjecture about Elio that it will become very unlikely for Elio to find the support they need.

Tucker was a visionary. The car was truly a giant improvement over available vehicles. When you wash away all the mysticism about Tucker, it boiled down to one journalist's story being reprinted over and over. That story was based on an early version of Tucker's car with an engine that should never have seen the light of day. Despite the fact that that particular engine wasn't destined for production, the article doomed Tucker.

Another example are all the people against Immunizations because they cause Autism. There was ONE study, repeated over and over that was an outright lie... The study was derided by the medical community, Andrew Wakefield was stripped of his license to practice medicine and declared a fraud. nonetheless, some people are still afraid to let their kids get immunizations.

Anyway, enough rambling. I support Elio. I defend Elio when people say they've lied because they haven't. To miss a projection is not a lie. I agree that when the Factory lease was held up and everything came to a grinding halt that Elio had a rough few months. I'll also agree that Paul Elio's next hire should be a Public Relations guru... If they have one, that one should be either fired or redirected. I've been in production (GM of Shreveport) and know things don't always go as planned. Sometimes, we'd think everything was going just fine until the minute they weren't.

I don't mind criticism to a point. I don't like feeling like I'm being told over and over again how stupid I am for putting down $1,000 on an Elio though. I mean in general and not particularly anyone on this forum (articles regurgitating old facts and restating them as proof of lies "Elio said they'd produce in 2014.". I put my money down hoping that it would help start a car company in the US that makes cars that meet our needs versus meeting our wants. I want them to succeed for the betterment of all. And yes, I want an Elio. I'll park my 16MPG truck and let it haul family and lumber when I need it.

Absolutely and outstanding!

 

[JEBar]

I whole-heartedly want EM to survive. If that doesn't happen, then I hope someone picks up the pieces and produces a million Elios.

Yes there is such a thing called constructive criticism.

Now you know my carefully guarded secret. I do care.

the reality is, constructive criticism directed toward EM needs to be directed at EM .... it would be a much different story if EM owned this site .... I find it interesting to read where angry folks come here to post because they have been blocked from EM's sites .... there are anti EM communities that would welcome there comments but they choose to come to and deliberately stir up trouble .... I've directly asked and some have stated that their reason for being here is to try and keep anyone else from making a reservation .... you and everyone else that has been here a while knows the difference .... recently I have recommended 3 friends (2 female, 1 male) who are genuinely interested in learning about EM to join .... all three have told me that they aren't interested because of the angry atmosphere .... this forum has a history of being able to question and discuss points without that anger and that's the way it should be

 

[RUCRAYZE]

the reality is, constructive criticism directed toward EM needs to be directed at EM .... it would be a much different story if EM owned this site .... I find it interesting to read where angry folks come here to post because they have been blocked from EM's sites .... there are anti EM communities that would welcome there comments but they choose to come to and deliberately stir up trouble .... I've directly asked and some have stated that their reason for being here is to try and keep anyone else from making a reservation .... you and everyone else that has been here a while knows the difference .... recently I have recommended 3 friends (2 female, 1 male) who are genuinely interested in learning about EM to join .... all three have told me that they aren't interested because of the angry atmosphere .... this forum has a history of being able to question and discuss points without that anger and that's the way it should be

and you are in a position to warn and them boot 'em, we are in a position, as you suggested to report them, for the moderators to follow up.