Raising Money From The Sale Of Surplus Equipment At The Shreveport Facility.

[TexasElio]

Just food for thought...and discussion...

Most GM equipment at the Shreveport Assembly & Stamping plant (1981-2012) was "purpose built" and may be outdated...such that the actual value is more than likely scrap metal...and hard to monetize...

Any stamping dies are specific to the parts being built for the specific vehicle being built. They are useless (and worthless) for anything else...

Any fixture that was used for holding sheet metal parts in place while they were being welded is specific to the vehicle being built...worthless if you are building a different vehicle...

Welding cells normally have a layout specific to the order of operations needed...which are also rather specific to the vehicle being built...can't use them for a different vehicle without substantial rework....

That means the assembly cells as a whole are pretty much useless to anyone...you can scavenge them for low-value parts like air cylinders..valves...etc. But the labor involved in disassembling the equipment often doesn't make this a viable exercise....

That leaves bits and pieces such as assembly line robots...

Robot installations are required to conform to a safety standard...the current American one is called ANSI/RIA R15.06-2012 which is a new standard. That standard took effect 1 January 2015...and because of the various new technical requirements contained therein...it pretty much makes any robot built before somewhere near 2007 give or take a few years (depends on robot manufacturer) useless for any application where it has to interact with an operator. They would lack certain compliance documentation which is now required...and any robot built before 2000-ish (depends on robot manufacturer) is absolutely useless because they are incapable of being "control reliable"...

So more than likely...all of the robots in that plant with the possible exception of some that might have been installed very late in that plant's operating life are scrap. Someone who doesn't care about compliance with safety standards may buy them ...and then have a plant compliance inspector would come along and tell them they have to replace them because they are non-conforming....

Stamping presses...not the tooling...but the presses themselves are likely high-value...but that equipment weighs thousands of tonnes and costs millions just to move it...

Shreveport doesn't have an engine plant...and it doesn't have a transmission plant...

 

[Smitty901]

If the future of ELIO is tied to the junk on the floor in that plant then Elio is truly dead for some time to come. If that Equipment had been worth much it would have been sold off long ago. Many reason it would sat some times building and equipment are leased / leased purchase. Even if not used or shut down payments may still be made to the holder. The assets are generally not of much real world value to others and are not sold off until there is no chance of any more payment or the contact runs out.
Huge store near year sat empty for 8 years nearly new building. While there was a half hearted attempt at getting someone to take over the lease , there was no reason to try hard they got paid for an empty building. Once payments stopped they building was sold in 6 months and tore down.

 

[goofyone]

We have had this discussion before and know that most of what you are trying to present is in fact not actually the case here. The fact of the matter is that Shreveport plant is a very modern and thus very flexibly designed plant. One of our members happens to be an industrial engineer who even worked at this plant for a while and has described it as one of GM's most advanced manufacturing plants when it ceased operations in the Fall of 2012 and still would be one today.

Also, unfortunately for GM, this was one of their most advanced manufacturing plants. Advantage to Elio? They'll start off with one of the most advanced assembly lines if not THE most advanced assembly lines in the US.

Excellent point Ty!

For those who may not know Ty is an Industrial Engineer who actually worked in the GM Shreveport plant so he would know the state the of the assembly lines and how it compares to other plants. To further add to this we also know that while the plant dates back to 1981 the current assembly building only dates to 2002 and was built as part of a $1.2 billion dollar plant upgrade. The plant was updated again at a cost of over $250 million in 2005 and again in 2008 at a cost of $73 million. So up until the economy hit the skids GM had invested over $1.5 billion in this plant just since 2002.

As Ty said this plant is a great deal for Elio Motors. It is no accident that EM focused on it as it already contains most of the equipment they need for production. This plant already has a modern chassis 'dip' anti-corrosion treatment facility, a robotic frame assembly area, one of the most modern automotive paint shops in the industry, the equipment needed to stamp the composite body panels as GM used similar composite materials for bumper covers and various other interior and exterior trims pieces.

Some people have asked if the plant was stripped by GM on the way out and the answer is no. As part of GM's bankruptcy this plant was kept intact by "RACER Trust", which is better known as "Old GM', and was leased to "New GM' for continued use. As a result when GM decided to end production in 2012 they were not allowed to strip the plant as that lowers the value of the plant so it is not allowed under the terms of GM's bankruptcy.

All of this is information is available from public sources and the majority of it is availabe in one place, the Racer Trust web site. We also know from news reports and former employees that when the plant shut down in the Fall of 2012 the plant was sealed and everything, including food left in the refrigerators, was sealed with it as this became an issue as employees did leave behind some personal property and such.

 

[JEBar]

We have had this discussion before and know that most of what you are trying to present is in fact not actually the case here.

that's a pretty good example of starting a conversation based on theory and starting one based on fact .... I have no clue how much demand there is for the equipment they have for sale but it would seem logical that the company handling the sale does

 

[Rickb]

goofyone, the moderators should consider a don't like response button along with the like for member posts. Perhaps even a true, false, and BS button. Also, members identified as Elio Fans, Afficianados, or Addicts based on their number of posts isn't proper labeling of members that negatively chip at Elio Motors directly or with underlying negativity in each and every question. Just an early morning thought.

 

[archer5013]

Just food for thought...and discussion...

Most GM equipment at the Shreveport Assembly & Stamping plant (1981-2012) was "purpose built" and may be outdated...such that the actual value is more than likely scrap metal...and hard to monetize...

Any stamping dies are specific to the parts being built for the specific vehicle being built. They are useless (and worthless) for anything else...

Any fixture that was used for holding sheet metal parts in place while they were being welded is specific to the vehicle being built...worthless if you are building a different vehicle...

Welding cells normally have a layout specific to the order of operations needed...which are also rather specific to the vehicle being built...can't use them for a different vehicle without substantial rework....

That means the assembly cells as a whole are pretty much useless to anyone...you can scavenge them for low-value parts like air cylinders..valves...etc. But the labor involved in disassembling the equipment often doesn't make this a viable exercise....

That leaves bits and pieces such as assembly line robots...

Robot installations are required to conform to a safety standard...the current American one is called ANSI/RIA R15.06-2012 which is a new standard. That standard took effect 1 January 2015...and because of the various new technical requirements contained therein...it pretty much makes any robot built before somewhere near 2007 give or take a few years (depends on robot manufacturer) useless for any application where it has to interact with an operator. They would lack certain compliance documentation which is now required...and any robot built before 2000-ish (depends on robot manufacturer) is absolutely useless because they are incapable of being "control reliable"...

So more than likely...all of the robots in that plant with the possible exception of some that might have been installed very late in that plant's operating life are scrap. Someone who doesn't care about compliance with safety standards may buy them ...and then have a plant compliance inspector would come along and tell them they have to replace them because they are non-conforming....

Stamping presses...not the tooling...but the presses themselves are likely high-value...but that equipment weighs thousands of tonnes and costs millions just to move it...

Shreveport doesn't have an engine plant...and it doesn't have a transmission plant...

Some of the (former) GM equipment thus far chosen for liquidation from the Shreveport facility possibly including some of what pertains to your summary, is posted on eBay, if you're interested, of course ( and is why Elio Motors has Automation Recovery & Comau facilitating this), might be reviewed, here:
http://stores.ebay.com/automationrecovery1/D:/users/classen/Documents/2011 DTP rebalance kits

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

TE really needs to do homework before posting. Like, perhaps looking to see what is listed for sale.

Personally, I was hoping to see a stamping press in the 600-1000 ton range. My company is looking for one, and they're scarce. The 2500 ton is just too big for our needs, but will likely sell at the listed price.

 

[Stephen Workman]

We have had this discussion before and know that most of what you are trying to present is in fact not actually the case here. The fact of the matter is that Shreveport plant is a very modern and thus very flexibly designed plant. One of our members happens to be an industrial engineer.

As soon as I read 'industrial engineer' , my eyes glazed over and I went to sleep - knowing that you have little concept how a manufacturing facility works. Engineers work from computer screens with CAD drawings, schematic printouts, etc...NOT A SINGLE ONE I've ever met (worked with) has a firm grasp of how 'the rubber meets the road'. Goofyone, if you are going to rely on the experience of an industrial engineer for ANYTHING remotely having to do with the viability/future of ELIO motors, then heaven help this forum. DON'T lead people down that path because of someone's former job title. BTW, I helped set up the SIA (then Subaru Isuzu Automotive - now the Subaru of Indiana Automotive) plant in Lafayette, Indiana in 1989. I helped set up stamping presses and parts warehouse layouts for the Subaru Legacy/Isuzu Rodeo lines. I'm no expert, but I'd tend to agree; those parts/fixtures are basically junk and most, if not all, either won't sell - or will bring pennies on the dollar. I don't mean to minimize the contributions of Engineers (my father was an EE), but rather be realistic about the case of a shuttered GM plant in Louisiana.

 

[Ty]

Just food for thought...and discussion...

Most GM equipment at the Shreveport Assembly & Stamping plant (1981-2012) was "purpose built" and may be outdated...such that the actual value is more than likely scrap metal...and hard to monetize...

Any stamping dies are specific to the parts being built for the specific vehicle being built. They are useless (and worthless) for anything else...

Any fixture that was used for holding sheet metal parts in place while they were being welded is specific to the vehicle being built...worthless if you are building a different vehicle...

Welding cells normally have a layout specific to the order of operations needed...which are also rather specific to the vehicle being built...can't use them for a different vehicle without substantial rework....

That means the assembly cells as a whole are pretty much useless to anyone...you can scavenge them for low-value parts like air cylinders..valves...etc. But the labor involved in disassembling the equipment often doesn't make this a viable exercise....

That leaves bits and pieces such as assembly line robots...

Robot installations are required to conform to a safety standard...the current American one is called ANSI/RIA R15.06-2012 which is a new standard. That standard took effect 1 January 2015...and because of the various new technical requirements contained therein...it pretty much makes any robot built before somewhere near 2007 give or take a few years (depends on robot manufacturer) useless for any application where it has to interact with an operator. They would lack certain compliance documentation which is now required...and any robot built before 2000-ish (depends on robot manufacturer) is absolutely useless because they are incapable of being "control reliable"...

So more than likely...all of the robots in that plant with the possible exception of some that might have been installed very late in that plant's operating life are scrap. Someone who doesn't care about compliance with safety standards may buy them ...and then have a plant compliance inspector would come along and tell them they have to replace them because they are non-conforming....

Stamping presses...not the tooling...but the presses themselves are likely high-value...but that equipment weighs thousands of tonnes and costs millions just to move it...

Shreveport doesn't have an engine plant...and it doesn't have a transmission plant...

The plant was built that long ago but the equipment is only a few years old. Back in the old days, stamping dies and such may have been vehicle specific but that isn't quite right. The individual dies may be specific and who cares? The presses are the high dollar items and the dies can be swapped out easily. Remember, this equipment, right at the GM bankruptcy was GM's MOST ADVANCED equipment. The welding cells were computer controlled back when I worked there and they have been replaced since. Comau knows how all that stuff works and can easily reprogram it all.
I know think you are correct about the engine needing a new line. Did Elio buy the stamping portion of the equipment? It was all in the expansion of the plant. I thought Elio just bought the equipment in the assembly building.

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

Just food for thought...and discussion...

You are already convinced that Elio will fail. You have no skin in the game. So what are you trying to do here? Why spend time and energy trying to convince the rest of us that Elio will fail? Stroke your ego?