My Elio Alternate Project Is Underway.

[84mpg]

Will the engine's radiator get enough air flow?? I'm not seeing a grill, just some area at the bottom for air flow.
The headlights and turn signal pods look like they take up a lot of real estate on the front facia/nose area, just wondering how much air is needed to cool the engine's radiator.
Probably not an issue for most people, but I'm in the desert -- we routinely see temps over 110 degrees (Fahrenheit)

Sounds like he's just practicing/experimenting with the Bora's front end. Highly doubt he's using it for the finished product.
Rest assured that Mark will make the finished front end work as it should.

 

[Velhartice]

Over the next week or 2, I am going to try a narrowed VW Bora/Jetta nose for size.

This doesn't mean that's what I am using, it's just that I have a Bora going to waste in the factory, so I can try it out, and get practice in for narrowing a nose, rather than buying new panels and doing it wrong.

The Bora is actually one of my favorite car noses, and the nose panels are highly sort after by VW Mk4 Golf owners as they bolt straight on. They then call them "Bolfs" by the way, Google it if you don't believe me

View attachment 25709

Added red one with racing stripes for the rev-heads ...

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Im also a fan of that generation Jetta as well in terms of aesthetics.

 

[Mark BEX]

Will the engine's radiator get enough air flow??

Just a CAD model, not real life.

 

[Joshua Caldwell]

Will the engine's radiator get enough air flow?? I'm not seeing a grill, just some area at the bottom for air flow.
The headlights and turn signal pods look like they take up a lot of real estate on the front facia/nose area, just wondering how much air is needed to cool the engine's radiator.
Probably not an issue for most people, but I'm in the desert -- we routinely see temps over 110 degrees (Fahrenheit)

Air intakes only started getting huge recently and only for the design appearance of being more "macho". Late 90's and early 00's cars barely had any front intakes. A friend still has a vehicle from those years, and they got most of their air from something underneath directing airflow up... she only found out about it when that physically broke from running over a large cement block and the car started overheating.

 

[Mark BEX]

The rule of thumb

Indeed, but all useless if the air has no where to go.

I have seen woolen tufts on on an overheating race car, flow FORWARDS out of the front grille 'mouth' at over 100mph as so much pressure was building up in the engine bay. One mistake he made was to lift the rear edge of the hood an inch, thinking air would escape there, not understanding that the base of the windscreen is one of the highest pressure areas on a car.

I think the p51 Mustang is a good example of a small mouth serving a larger radiator (but at 300mph ? ).

One of the best examples, brilliant design, and there's some excellent writeups about how that works on the net.

 

[Joshua Caldwell]

The rule of thumb I learned was that 1/6th the square area of the radiator forward facing surface is the minimum required, provided that ducting provides laminar flow. i.e no turbulations or vortexes induced into the flow. And assuming mostly a single channel, and not a narrow slot. So fancy substancial grill work could force more area to be required.

And assuming the radiator was well designed and not oversized. Used with ambient temps under 110f (43c). But then you have to consider the situation of sitting at the stop-light on a hot day..., etc etc.

Most common applications might be 1/2 the area required, at minimum. I don't think many have been less than that. Traditionally, they just go full size, with fancy grill work.

I think the p51 Mustang is a good example of a small mouth serving a larger radiator (but at 300mph ? ).

 

[Sonoran Sam]

Used with ambient temps under 110f (43c). But then you have to consider the situation of sitting at the stop-light on a hot day..., etc etc.

Yes -- one day I was stuck in traffic on my motorcycle, when the ambient temperature hit 118(F). As I crept along in traffic, I kept watching the engine temperature climb and climb. When the engine hit 243(F) the temp reading started flashing. I threw in the towel, got off the highway and headed to a bar to cool down & re-hydrate. After a few hours the sun set and traffic eased, so I went home.

 

[Mark BEX]

. So he opened his hood up, but not past the second latch.

Suddenly he had to give chase, with no time to latch the hood fully.

Seems simple, air chooses the easiest path, in through the large gap over the top of the radiator, and pressurising the engine bay, so none is going through the radiator which is of higher resitance. Many cars have a rubber sealing strip along the front edge of the bonnet, or on top of the radiator upper support frame to prevent just that.

 

[Mark BEX]

I will tell you some news: The decision has been made to move to a Honda 1.5 engine, found in the FIT.

The primary motivation is availability of automatic transmission, that I have not been able to secure supply of (at reasonable cost), as well as being able to buy parts anywhere and getting serviced at any local shop.

The 2 largest selling small cars in the USA with automatic transmission are the 1.4 Chevrolet Spark, and the 1.5 Honda FIT.

I ran the question elsewhere between the 2 choices, and hands down people were unamiously satisfied that the Honda is the way to go. The Honda L15 engine is made in America BTW, and I was quite surprised at the negativity towards the GM product.

I always stated that I might not use the Toyota KR-1 engine I currently have in the prototype, and what goes against it is, it's unknown in the USA, but more impotantly, there is no automatic available for it.

Personally I think the engine is a little bit too powerful for the application (though that may bring joy to many others!), and I will look into detuning it, but that is the only real downside (if it is a downside!). Interesting that it is the 3rd smallest engine available in the USA, only the Chev Spark and Mitsubishi Mirage being smaller.

So I grabbed a donor car today, engine bay already been stripped this afternoon, and tomorrow will pull the driveline out, and start measuring for the changes to be made to the proto chassis to install it.

This decision simply comes down to economics, and KISS.

 

[ehwatt]

I will tell you some news: The decision has been made to move to a Honda 1.5 engine, found in the FIT.

The primary motivation is availability of automatic transmission, that I have not been able to secure supply of (at reasonable cost), as well as being able to buy parts anywhere and getting serviced at any local shop.

The 2 largest selling small cars in the USA with automatic transmission are the 1.4 Chevrolet Spark, and the 1.5 Honda FIT.

I ran the question elsewhere between the 2 choices, and hands down people were unamiously satisfied that the Honda is the way to go. The Honda L15 engine is made in America BTW, and I was quite surprised at the negativity towards the GM product.

I always stated that I might not use the Toyota KR-1 engine I currently have in the prototype, and what goes against it is, it's unknown in the USA, but more impotantly, there is no automatic available for it.

Personally I think the engine is a little bit too powerful for the application (though that may bring joy to many others!), and I will look into detuning it, but that is the only real downside (if it is a downside!). Interesting that it is the 3rd smallest engine available in the USA, only the Chev Spark and Mitsubishi Mirage being smaller.

So I grabbed a donor car today, engine bay already been stripped this afternoon, and tomorrow will pull the driveline out, and start measuring for the changes to be made to the proto chassis to install it.

This decision simply comes down to economics, and KISS.

Personally, I think that is the way to go. Any chance you could leave it alone for mine?

I will tell you some news: The decision has been made to move to a Honda 1.5 engine, found in the FIT.

The primary motivation is availability of automatic transmission, that I have not been able to secure supply of (at reasonable cost), as well as being able to buy parts anywhere and getting serviced at any local shop.

The 2 largest selling small cars in the USA with automatic transmission are the 1.4 Chevrolet Spark, and the 1.5 Honda FIT.

I ran the question elsewhere between the 2 choices, and hands down people were unamiously satisfied that the Honda is the way to go. The Honda L15 engine is made in America BTW, and I was quite surprised at the negativity towards the GM product.

I always stated that I might not use the Toyota KR-1 engine I currently have in the prototype, and what goes against it is, it's unknown in the USA, but more impotantly, there is no automatic available for it.

Personally I think the engine is a little bit too powerful for the application (though that may bring joy to many others!), and I will look into detuning it, but that is the only real downside (if it is a downside!). Interesting that it is the 3rd smallest engine available in the USA, only the Chev Spark and Mitsubishi Mirage being smaller.

So I grabbed a donor car today, engine bay already been stripped this afternoon, and tomorrow will pull the driveline out, and start measuring for the changes to be made to the proto chassis to install it.

This decision simply comes down to economics, and KISS.