Model 3 Vs Elio

[voyager]

Ironic is that buying a Tesla is hugely fiscally favored in the country I live. But the Netherlands is also way behind greening its energy supply. That means that approx. 85% of the energy is generated by burning natural gas and coal (in the U.S. it's about 65%). So, a Tesla tapping electricity from a wall socket is more polluting than let's say a lightweight car with a frugal ICE.

 

[Rickb]

Ironic is that buying a Tesla is hugely fiscally favored in the country I live. But the Netherlands is also way behind greening its energy supply. That means that approx. 85% of the energy is generated by burning natural gas and coal (in the U.S. it's about 65%). So, a Tesla tapping electricity from a wall socket is more polluting than let's say a lightweight car with a frugal ICE.

It would be interesting to see accurate side by side comparisons. I understand you are comparing weight classes of vehicles so a light weight everyday electric like the Arcimoto SRK is far less polluting than let's say a lightweight car. Other key factor regarding the Tesla is that my interest is in performance and handling not simply environmental.

 

[johnsnownw]

I am talking about the, up to, $7000 individual tax credit that an individual gets for buying a BPV.
(Battery Powered Vehicle)
That has nothing to do with the ATVM program.
It has nothing to do with jobs.
Set up a similar program for all vehicles that get over 75 MPG highway (EPA) and my argument will go away.
It takes tax dollars and gives people a special incentive to buy a BPV.

The requirement, of course, would be that there are 75 MPG vehicles on the road. Currently, there are no vehicles that meet this requirement, and as far as I'm aware the incentives weren't enacted until PEVs were either for sale, or imminent.

It seems to me there is still plenty of time for regulators to develop tax incentive for efficient ICE vehicles. Although, I'd like to point out that the "Cash for Clunkers" program was a federal incentive designed to encourage the purchase of more efficient ICE vehicles. So, it's not as though the Govt. hasn't incentivized the sale of ICE vehicles before.

 

[Rickb]

I am talking about the, up to, $7000 individual tax credit that an individual gets for buying a BPV.
(Battery Powered Vehicle)
That has nothing to do with the ATVM program.
It has nothing to do with jobs.
Set up a similar program for all vehicles that get over 75 MPG highway (EPA) and my argument will go away.
It takes tax dollars and gives people a special incentive to buy a BPV.

Different yes, but all are government incentive programs established to help develop new technology and make that new technology more affordable for the masses. If the EV incentive program wasn't in place to encourage the development and purchasing Electric Vehicles there would be no Tesla Motors and the 1000's of jobs they provide.

I'll respect your view, but not sure why you oppose incentives for some individuals willing to be the early adopters that go hand in hand with the many corporate incentive programs that support and encourage businesses like Elio Motors to set up shop in Louisiana and/or Tesla Motors. Again, they can use my tax dollars, and yours on something you support. This is a Model 3 vs Elio thread, for me it's not one vs the other because I support both and whatever it takes to make them successful. Both ATVMs, both high mpg/mpge, different vehicles classes, one old tech one new high tech, different demographics, both requiring some form of government incentive to be successful.

I actually prefer to see incentive $ go back to an individual taxpayer and you don't. I continue to wait stashing some cash away to someday buy both vehicles. The EV incentive program will no doubt end by the time I receive delivery on my Model 3, which should make you very happy indeed.

 

[johnsnownw]

Ironic is that buying a Tesla is hugely fiscally favored in the country I live. But the Netherlands is also way behind greening its energy supply. That means that approx. 85% of the energy is generated by burning natural gas and coal (in the U.S. it's about 65%). So, a Tesla tapping electricity from a wall socket is more polluting than let's say a lightweight car with a frugal ICE.

That's a bit simplistic though. You can't really relegate BEVs to the average grid, since no one actually charges from it. Varying regions have varying amounts of FF derived power. On top of that, you can purchase RE power in many States, and of course add solar panels to your home.

 

[WilliamH]

Different yes, but all are government incentive programs established to help develop new technology and make that new technology more affordable for the masses. If the EV incentive program wasn't in place to encourage the development and purchasing Electric Vehicles there would be no Tesla Motors and the 1000's of jobs they provide.

I'll respect your view, but not sure why you oppose incentives for some individuals willing to be the early adopters that go hand in hand with the many corporate incentive programs that support and encourage businesses like Elio Motors to set up shop in Louisiana and/or Tesla Motors. Again, they can use my tax dollars, and yours on something you support. This is a Model 3 vs Elio thread, for me it's not one vs the other because I support both and whatever it takes to make them successful. Both ATVMs, both high mpg/mpge, different vehicles classes, one old tech one new high tech, different demographics, both requiring some form of government incentive to be successful.

I actually prefer to see incentive $ go back to an individual taxpayer and you don't. I continue to wait stashing some cash away to someday buy both vehicles. The EV incentive program will no doubt end by the time I receive delivery on my Model 3, which should make you very happy indeed.

Let's start from the top........
BPVs (Battery Powered Vehicles) are not particularly new as far as technology.
Henry Ford's wife drove a Baker Electric. Lead Acid rather than Lithium, but batterys.
Different controller, does the same job. Some refinements, but the same basic technology.

The same can be said of Elio. Same basic ICE with some refinements.

At which point, they are all creating jobs.

Mr. Musk stated that a lot of the early 3s would be loaded and cost around $55 - $60K. Sounds like a subsidy to the rich. ....."As of 2012, the median household income was $50,054, according to the Census Bureau report issued for that year."..... (---> http://work.chron.com/average-yearly-income-middle-class-family-16547.html <---)

Sounds like there needs to be a push where it will provide cost effective mobility to more people below the median income level rather than a perk for those at higher levels.

As far as when the BPV incentive ends, No, it doesn't make me happy that someone who probably needs the incentive, like you, will not get it while the status conscious early adopters, who have more money than brains, will get the full break so they can treat their BPV as an environmental status symbol.

 

[Coss]

Interesting article I came across today:

Elon Musk Admits to Shareholders That the Tesla Roadster Was a Disaster

 

[Rickb]

Musk on naming the Model 3: We had the Model S for Sedan and the Model X for the Crossover. So we had the model S and X, we might as well have the E. Ford sued because they wanted to use the E name. So now..............

Who knew Elon Musk had a sense of humor.

 

[John-b-gone]

If you turn the 3 around it becomes an E and spells SEX. The next model should be the "Y"

 

[Sethodine]

Who knew Elon Musk had a sense of humor.

Shortly after the first time they landed a rocket on a barge, Musk tweeted this video (he later deleted the tweet though).
WARNING: Contains foul language.