Just Wow!!!

[Ty]

It sounds like that if we just eliminated all of the foreign companies in the US we'd be better off. That US companies would be formed to take up the void that is left. So for the last 38 years, companies like Honda are bad for the US and they should have built their plants in another country and not employed Americans, used American Engineers and used American Suppliers. That should have been what Ford, Chevy and Chrysler should have done. Since they didn't do that, then we just needed to hope they would and wait around for something to happen. I guess the money I received from Honda, Toyota and VW for various projects was not good for the US economy then. Since it's not, then who was going to fill that void over the last 30 years?

I don't think that was his point. He was stating that even when jobs are created here, it would be BETTER if the profits to the company also stayed here. As it sits, profits for Honda go to another country. And THAT's the reason foreign ownership is bad. It is better they build their plants here than elsewhere but we don't want the Chinese to own Ford, for instance.

 

[RSchneider]

I don't think that was his point. He was stating that even when jobs are created here, it would be BETTER if the profits to the company also stayed here. As it sits, profits for Honda go to another country. And THAT's the reason foreign ownership is bad. It is better they build their plants here than elsewhere but we don't want the Chinese to own Ford, for instance.

That's living in fantasy land and not realistic. I'd love it if all the money came from US owned companies but I've moved on. I need to eat and pay the bills. So, I could refuse the work or just take it. I found that a Honda check is as good as a Ford one.

In the real world, we have to deal with a global economy no matter what. I hear the same argument all of the time in Europe and Asia. They do not like that their companies set up shop in the US when they could just do it in their country because they think their country is the best at everything. I do find that communism is the best solution in this situation because in Russia and China, every foreign company must be a 50% ownership with a local entity. So, they force everyone to become a local partner. In that way, they keep part of the profits local.

You need to remember, we are a country of consumers (just like every other developed country) and I doubt that anyone here is buying an Elio because they absolutely need one for survival as opposed to that they just want one. If people were in the poor house, you wouldn't have plopped down $1K, four years ago because this one product was going to turn their life around. In the end, we will all buy an Elio no matter what parts are in it and no matter where they are. We will get 84 mpg and spent peanuts on the car itself. Bragging rights is what we will exploit next year.

 

[Made in USA]

I don't have a problem with, Honda for instance, having a plant here in the USA, but where are the American makers selling an equal amount in Japan? That's the problem. It's even worse with the Chinese. To make matters worse is when they "appropriate" the American designs and technologies eventually shifting the production to themselves by eliminating the competition.

 

[Ty]

That's living in fantasy land and not realistic. I'd love it if all the money came from US owned companies but I've moved on. I need to eat and pay the bills. So, I could refuse the work or just take it. I found that a Honda check is as good as a Ford one.

In the real world, we have to deal with a global economy no matter what. I hear the same argument all of the time in Europe and Asia. They do not like that their companies set up shop in the US when they could just do it in their country because they think their country is the best at everything. I do find that communism is the best solution in this situation because in Russia and China, every foreign company must be a 50% ownership with a local entity. So, they force everyone to become a local partner. In that way, they keep part of the profits local.

You need to remember, we are a country of consumers (just like every other developed country) and I doubt that anyone here is buying an Elio because they absolutely need one for survival as opposed to that they just want one. If people were in the poor house, you wouldn't have plopped down $1K, four years ago because this one product was going to turn their life around. In the end, we will all buy an Elio no matter what parts are in it and no matter where they are. We will get 84 mpg and spent peanuts on the car itself. Bragging rights is what we will exploit next year.

I don't disagree with you. Given the choice, all things being equal, it would be better to have a company owned and distributing profits in America vs. one that siphons profits to another country. I, for one, LIKE that the Elio is trying to be mostly American made but I LOVE the idea of having a little car that gets 84 MPG or at least close because I can't justify spending a lot of money to save fuel and can't sell my truck. The Elio would save me about $150 a month in fuel and would mostly offset the expense of owning the Elio. Where the Elio comes from is not that huge of a deal.

 

[Ty]

I don't have a problem with, Honda for instance, having a plant here in the USA, but where are the American makers selling an equal amount in Japan? That's the problem. It's even worse with the Chinese. To make matters worse is when they "appropriate" the American designs and technologies eventually shifting the production to themselves by eliminating the competition.

I think you'd find there are far more auto manufactures from the US in China than there are from China in the US.

 

[Sethodine]

So, only 2 Fortune 500 companies: Ford and GM

Only one offers a ~100hp engine: the Ford Ecoboost 1.0 liter

None of the other F500 build engines?

 

[Trusting]

So, only 2 Fortune 500 companies: Ford and GM

Only one offers a ~100hp engine: the Ford Ecoboost 1.0 liter

None of the other F500 build engines?

As usual, good info. Thanks.

 

[RSchneider]

I don't disagree with you. Given the choice, all things being equal, it would be better to have a company owned and distributing profits in America vs. one that siphons profits to another country. I, for one, LIKE that the Elio is trying to be mostly American made but I LOVE the idea of having a little car that gets 84 MPG or at least close because I can't justify spending a lot of money to save fuel and can't sell my truck. The Elio would save me about $150 a month in fuel and would mostly offset the expense of owning the Elio. Where the Elio comes from is not that huge of a deal.

This is reality verses fantasy. There comes a point where you can have your "must haves" and sit around for years not getting anywhere or just relax on them and get it to market. If it's really a deal breaker, then let Elio know that it must be a US built motor and that the 90% NAFTA must be in place. It might take another 5 years and maybe that's the way to go. Get the perfect car no matter how long it takes.

 

[Bilbo B]

The reason foreign ownership (stocks) and manufacturing is bad for the USA is that a portion of the profits made from selling to the American market leaves the USA. Sure, some money is reinvested. Sure jobs are created. However, if the companies were 100% American owned, then all the profits would remain in this country. Ideally we would sell products to the foreign countries at the same rate we are buying from them, resulting in an equal trade balance. But if you follow the news, we have trade deficits with many countries. This means more profits are leaving than coming in. That's bad in the long run. We may not even have food as a major export soon. I see where they are making hydroponic buildings with solar cell power and LED grow lights and producing in very dry areas and areas with poor soil. I'm not saying we should become a closed society, but we do need to focus more on ourselves and make things a little more even.

The majority of the profits that aren't reinvested in ANY company go to the shareholders. I just checked - you can buy Honda Stock on the NYSE. If you want more of Honda's profits to stay in the US, go buy HMC Stock. Or TM stock if you think Toyota is more profitable. And, how many shareholders of Ford, or GM stock are from outside the US? Heck, first the Germans, and now the Italians, own Chrysler. What is more American than a Jeep? Or is it Italian? My wife had a Chrysler PT Cruiser. At that time Chrysler was owned by Daimler. The car was built in Mexico. What nationality car was it? All I know is that's the closest I'll ever get to owning a Mercedes.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Yeah, they got me at the basic, "It must be from America. I'm not selling out!"
I will happily sell out if it means getting to own and drive this 10-year ~70mpg pipe dream.

I haven't made much money over the course of my life.
I owned a multi-system business for 20 years and had a variety of jobs.
Consequently, I'm not making jack on SS. However, I've lived, and am living, pretty well.

I believe that despite those darned foreigners trying to steal everything they can from us...
The average schmuck that makes reasonably intelligent life choices and puts forth a minimal effort...
Does not have to live a destitute life trapped in extreme perpetual poverty in this country unless it's by choice..

IMO, usually the more money a person makes, the less effort they put into making sure that they don't waste it.
I also believe that without the internet and the fact that other countries still find that we have the capacity to be a market...
My standard of living would not be even close to what it is. Point is, we can't be too badly off if others still see us as a cash cow.

When I can buy new, good-quality T-shirts in almost any color in the rainbow for 88 cents each...
And find that the majority of the businesses in surrounding communities struggle to fill their job openings...
I find it very hard to continue to believe in the great American job theft apocalypse. It seems to have balanced out.

I understand and agree with those who want 90% NA content.
But I also believe that the "Must Have" objectives may have been a bit too ambitious.
The key is reality. Either EM stubbornly holds to the things they've said and there's no chance in hell...

Or we find other opportunities to practice selective domestic spending...
And at least have a slim chance in hell of owning and driving a new Elio for cheap.
All the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth in the world is not going to change that reality.