Investor Question Answered...

[Brainmatter]

I don't think the naysayers should be discounted out of hand. They do bring up some really good points that, if one is concerned about, should be investigated further. But when they go on to make totally unsubstantiated comments like this: "Lastly, Lichter is an idiot when it comes to either participating or advising a volume automobile business, he sells real estate." I really have to wonder. It speaks volumes about their credibility.
I mean... Alan Mulally was obviously one of the worst choices for Ford. He was an outsider, an airplane guy (Yes, that's what many critics said back when he took over the CEO position of Ford).
I'll stop there I guess.
In the end though, I guess I don't care. With my reservation I'm paying to participate in this experiment. Kind of like with Public Radio. Sure, you can get it for free, but it feels better to try and help out a little.

 

[Brainmatter]

I'll add one more thing then I'll sign off for a while again.
If I honestly thought or had any real evidence that P.E. or anyone on the BOD of Elio motors had no intention of bringing a car to market, that this was all just an elaborate scheme to defraud honest hard working regular people like us from our hard earned money either directly or indirectly through an elaborate real estate scheme, I would change my tune in a heartbeat. I'll put up with alleged incompetence to a point, but not out and out fraud.
So, if some naysayer has any real evidence that there are shenanigans afoot here, please pony it up along with your real name etc. etc. I'd be happy to put all my resources to ferret out the dirt. Because the last thing I want is for people to be scammed. But there is no evidence that I can find that that is what is going on here.
No. Paul (really, REALLY) wants to build his car as far as I can tell, and that's good enough for me. It may prove to be misguided, may include carefully worded statements about funding, but it's not fraud.

 

[Snick]

I do not suspect fraud from EM. It just doesn't fit any pattern, in my opinion. I suspect a lack of committment and an inability to follow through.

 

[whattheelf]

I don't think the naysayers should be discounted out of hand. They do bring up some really good points that, if one is concerned about, should be investigated further. But when they go on to make totally unsubstantiated comments like this: "Lastly, Lichter is an idiot when it comes to either participating or advising a volume automobile business, he sells real estate." I really have to wonder. It speaks volumes about their credibility.
I mean... Alan Mulally was obviously one of the worst choices for Ford. He was an outsider, an airplane guy (Yes, that's what many critics said back when he took over the CEO position of Ford).
I'll stop there I guess.
In the end though, I guess I don't care. With my reservation I'm paying to participate in this experiment. Kind of like with Public Radio. Sure, you can get it for free, but it feels better to try and help out a little.

When it comes to credibility, practically no one here seems to even have a fundamental grasp of business, let alone any kind of understanding of how and what it takes to build a large complex volume automobile business, which is really much less about actually making the vehicles than it is creating an entirely new driving platform the mass market is not likely to adopt, all of which is practically impossible without massive funding.

This is always the rub here, few seem to want to acknowledge the facts, or the delays, the issues, the risks, because you fixate on the same messaging with a certain new slant or spin on the same old information. For this reason MOST of you come off as actually paid SHILLS by Elio to create a false sense of this is going to happen, when HIGHLY likely it isn't going to happen.

The bottom is, and has always been, now read this carefully; Elio needs 200M to launch, they have @55M, period, end, there is no wiggle room around that. This means friends, no more "investors" outside the so called board of directors, no Elio. Now believers can cite reservations of 20K, 30K, 40K, etc, it still doesn't matter, reservations are a vote for liking the vehicle and wanting one, and only a tiny fraction are all in paid in full and nonrefundable.

Lichter is without credibility and is otherwise ignorant of how this kind of business operates, and to just paraphrase his last comments that made the news "Paul is either a completely crazy man or the next Henry Ford", which is enlightening how out of touch he is in general. Lichter is just caught up in the moment and enamored with Paul, which is WHY maybe his supposed 7.5M he promised hasn't seemed to been given, so I keep wondering whats taking so long??

Further, comparing Lichter to Mulally is ridiculous. Ford already is a fully established operation, and market, it just needed a seasoned executive to keep it running. Lichter is involving himself in a company that doesn't even actually exist. The notion that Lichter adds any value other than dropping 7.5M to help his buddy Paul, is ludicrous.

The way I see it there must be packs of you paid by Elio to try and brainwash newbies into believing everything is going to be fine, its all going to work out, keep the faith, ignore all the missteps, the delays, the klugy marketing stuff, etc etc, its reprehensible to insist this far out and this far delayed that this company has a shot, or the FUNDING TO HIT LAUNCH would of arrived 6 MONTHS ago.

If you want to challenge this thesis based on real business knowledge/practice, I welcome the opportunity, and if not spare me the motherhood and apple pie fairy tale picture posting bs which fools no one.

 

[Neal]

When it comes to credibility, practically no one here seems to even have a fundamental grasp of business, let alone any kind of understanding of how and what it takes to build a large complex volume automobile business, which is really much less about actually making the vehicles than it is creating an entirely new driving platform the mass market is not likely to adopt, all of which is practically impossible without massive funding.

This is always the rub here, few seem to want to acknowledge the facts, or the delays, the issues, the risks, because you fixate on the same messaging with a certain new slant or spin on the same old information. For this reason MOST of you come off as actually paid SHILLS by Elio to create a false sense of this is going to happen, when HIGHLY likely it isn't going to happen.

The bottom is, and has always been, now read this carefully; Elio needs 200M to launch, they have @55M, period, end, there is no wiggle room around that. This means friends, no more "investors" outside the so called board of directors, no Elio. Now believers can cite reservations of 20K, 30K, 40K, etc, it still doesn't matter, reservations are a vote for liking the vehicle and wanting one, and only a tiny fraction are all in paid in full and nonrefundable.

Lichter is without credibility and is otherwise ignorant of how this kind of business operates, and to just paraphrase his last comments that made the news "Paul is either a completely crazy man or the next Henry Ford", which is enlightening how out of touch he is in general. Lichter is just caught up in the moment and enamored with Paul, which is WHY maybe his supposed 7.5M he promised hasn't seemed to been given, so I keep wondering whats taking so long??

Further, comparing Lichter to Mulally is ridiculous. Ford already is a fully established operation, and market, it just needed a seasoned executive to keep it running. Lichter is involving himself in a company that doesn't even actually exist. The notion that Lichter adds any value other than dropping 7.5M to help his buddy Paul, is ludicrous.

The way I see it there must be packs of you paid by Elio to try and brainwash newbies into believing everything is going to be fine, its all going to work out, keep the faith, ignore all the missteps, the delays, the klugy marketing stuff, etc etc, its reprehensible to insist this far out and this far delayed that this company has a shot, or the FUNDING TO HIT LAUNCH would of arrived 6 MONTHS ago.

If you want to challenge this thesis based on real business knowledge/practice, I welcome the opportunity, and if not spare me the motherhood and apple pie fairy tale picture posting bs which fools no one.

We get it. You're smarter than the rest of us. You've made that known repeatedly. Despite
that, I still have no doubt I will be driving my red Elio all over Dallas next year.

 

[Ekh]

A statement that "we have X, Y, and Z deeply experienced retirees on our board and they are well-connected financially" is NOT the same as "we have credit commitments for $N million with event-triggered agreements for $60 million more when we reach certain design and production milestones, and we have commitments for 80,000 units, 20,000 in the U.S and 60,000 in China, India, and the EU."

Zealots buy the former statement, while cynics aren't satisfied with anything less than the second one.

I'm hoping the truth is that Elio HAS gotten commitments enough to get the plant set up and the design finalized. I still don't understand why Elio insists on making their own engines, with the 100 million start-up cost JUST FOR THE BLOCKS ALONE. That PE is insisting on this suggests they DO have money to build the engine, or at least some of it.

My sense is that things are iffy, but far from impossible. But that's just my antennae wiggling … maybe everything's hunkdory, and there's an endless supply of caviar and truffles at your local grocery …. and maybe not.

 

[Ty]

A statement that "we have X, Y, and Z deeply experienced retirees on our board and they are well-connected financially" is NOT the same as "we have credit commitments for $N million with event-triggered agreements for $60 million more when we reach certain design and production milestones, and we have commitments for 80,000 units, 20,000 in the U.S and 60,000 in China, India, and the EU."

Zealots buy the former statement, while cynics aren't satisfied with anything less than the second one.

I'm hoping the truth is that Elio HAS gotten commitments enough to get the plant set up and the design finalized. I still don't understand why Elio insists on making their own engines, with the 100 million start-up cost JUST FOR THE BLOCKS ALONE. That PE is insisting on this suggests they DO have money to build the engine, or at least some of it.

My sense is that things are iffy, but far from impossible. But that's just my antennae wiggling … maybe everything's hunkdory, and there's an endless supply of caviar and truffles at your local grocery …. and maybe not.

IAV built the block. They are already set up to do it so there wasn't a $100M cost to do so.

 

[Ekh]

IAV built the block. They are already set up to do it so there wasn't a $100M cost to do so.

Ty, IAV designed the engine. The first test casting of the block has been made by Grainger and Worrall.

Grainger & Worrall provides prototype, race and small series casting solutions in aluminium, iron and stainless steel to a global market. They are not high-volume manufacturers (that's their language, not mine).

So Elio will have to have a way of producing blocks in volume. IAV is not a production shop. G&W is not a volume production shop -- they do prototypes and small runs. Maybe Elio has found a way to get G&W to set up for volume manufacturing, or maybe another foundry will take molds developed by G&W to another volume-oriented foundry or they will build it themselves … But so far, there's been no discussion that Elio is farming the block manufacturing out. Hence the hundred million. Setting up your own foundry is very, very expensive.

The important issue for Elio (and for us, Elio supporters and all-in customers) is whether they can fund manufacturing. It's an open issue, and is certainly fair game for discussion.

 

[bowers baldwin]

Does anyone know how I can get on the "paid shills" list? and do they pay by post or per word? and is this a full time position or more of a paid contractor situation? I hate having to fill out a 1099.

 

[Ty]

Ty, IAV designed the engine. The first test casting of the block has been made by Grainger and Worrall.

Grainger & Worrall provides prototype, race and small series casting solutions in aluminium, iron and stainless steel to a global market. They are not high-volume manufacturers (that's their language, not mine).

So Elio will have to have a way of producing blocks in volume. IAV is not a production shop. G&W is not a volume production shop -- they do prototypes and small runs. Maybe Elio has found a way to get G&W to set up for volume manufacturing, or maybe another foundry will take molds developed by G&W to another volume-oriented foundry or they will build it themselves … But so far, there's been no discussion that Elio is farming the block manufacturing out. Hence the hundred million. Setting up your own foundry is very, very expensive.

The important issue for Elio (and for us, Elio supporters and all-in customers) is whether they can fund manufacturing. It's an open issue, and is certainly fair game for discussion.

Actually, good point. For some reason, I thought I had read that IAV was ramping up for full production of the motor. Now, I can't find anything about it except where Elio says" IAV designed a great motor and we will build it in Shreveport, LA". I thought that meant they'd be taking cast blocks and doing assembly work there. I know that plant didn't have an aluminum forge. Huh. Elio has to know that starting that up will be pricey but must be worth it in the end... They have some people working on it with years and years more experience than me. Plus, other than what I've read about how other manufacturers have started up, I can't profess to know what they have or haven't thought about. I'll ask Elio about the engine.