I Want My Money Back. You've Pushed Back The Production Date Five (5) Times.

[Ian442]

Grey market bug (2000 from Mexico sitting on a 1969 pan) 1914cc, mid range cam, dual Kadron carbs, discs all way round, sitting on BRM wheels.
What else... ummm no a/c, no power anything, 74 rear fenders 63 front fenders, me and a friend did the paint work after a Volvo customized the front end a few years ago. Runs high 15's in the quarter mile (quick for a bug, slow for a car).

Gray Market ?

 

[Elio Amazed]

As in was never really intended for import?

Here's a a couple of tidbits...
The '71 to '74 Super Beetle produced 60HP in the U.S.
My '74 had a curb weight of 1918 pounds.

This site called that dismal even for the early '70s.
It did take forever for it to get up to highway speed.
I remember it had decent low end torque though.
I used to go hill climbing in mine when it was new.

http://autoresource.internetautoguide.com/1974-vw-super-beetle-specs-1068.html

How many HPs are we supposed to get out of our 1200 lb Elio again?

 

[slinches]

There's only several styling prototypes in existence... but no specification ready prototypes that are remotely similar to a real world consumer Elio Vehicle...

While P1-3 may have been more "proof of concept" than production ready, the P4 certainly isn't just a "styling" prototype. They have been progressively moving toward a production configuration with each new vehicle and P5 is intended to identify the final changes needed to freeze the design for production.

Elio's claims regarding fuel mileage... safety parameters ... price point... are all unverified promises... it's important to note that Paul & his staff have made dozens of unrealized promises over the years...

The claims on mileage and price target may not be independently verified as far as I'm aware, but I can speak to the crash safety analysis. I've worked with Altair (not specifically on this, but using the same analytical tools and techniques) and the crash testing analysis they have done is in line with the best practices of the automotive industry. If anyone can predict crash test outcomes, they can.

Elio Motors is currently cashless... has a mountain of debt... and can not currently meet it's financial obligations... but of course Paul still collect a 250K salary from the deposit holder's...

Basically all start ups go deep into debt to get their business going. This is just the way business works. People make loans on the basis that they will get much more in return if the company succeeds. The numbers may look scary to people (including me) who have limited experience in this sort of financial arena, but I choose to trust the expert independent auditors opinions on EM's financial position (I won't try to summarize it here. That is available in the Reg A+ filing docs).

Soon...there's a P5 promised... but will it be equipped with airbags... traction control... ABS brakes... and all the other numerous production features the Paul has promised... I fully expect the P5 build is currently having engineering issues... and will be another disappointment for Elio Motors supporters...

I expect there to be some interior details, ECU and other electrical systems issues to work out, of course. Although, the major structural issues have already been addressed with the P4, so unless there's a supplier availability issue or something of the sort outside of EM's control. I see no reason for there to be any major engineering issues that would cause a long term delay (they should have some padding built into the schedule to handle the normal fit-up tweaks).

IMO... The DOE ATVM loan staff must be chuckling every time they review newly submitted Elio documentation... of course the Reg A filing docs show Elio is paying "Black Swan LLC" a fee of 1.4 million to process the ATVM paperwork... LOL

No one outside of the DOE and probably the handful of people who worked on the prior ATVM loan docs has any clue what the DOE thinks of the application. Unless you know one of those people and they're willing to talk, speculation is useless.


As far as the rest of your comments go, they are mostly opinion and unfounded speculations. If you think that it's less likely now than when you put in a reservation, that's fine. Everyone has to evaluate where they think EM stands independently and make their own investment decisions. I just wanted to provide some personal experience (and opinion) from someone who knows how engineering is done and thinks that Elio Motors is doing all the right things to get to production.

 

[Keith Dahl]

i'll give you 10 cents on the dollar for your place in line and take over paying for car. work it out legally and get back to me! thx in advance!

 

[bowers baldwin]

Gray Market ?

Yea, they still made air cooled beetles in Mexico until 2004, but you could not import them due to crash standards, so you take a wrecked VW from the states, ship down the pan (frame with sn#) and they swap everything onto the old pan with whatever year bug you got. So voila! a brand new 1969 beetle with warranty and all.. oh and it was $12K when all was said and done.

 

[bowers baldwin]

As in was never really intended for import?

Here's a a couple of tidbits...
The '71 to '74 Super Beetle produced 60HP in the U.S.
My '74 had a curb weight of 1918 pounds.

This site called that dismal even for the early '70s.
It did take forever for it to get up to highway speed.
I remember it had decent low end torque though.
I used to go hill climbing in mine when it was new.

http://autoresource.internetautoguide.com/1974-vw-super-beetle-specs-1068.html

How many HPs are we supposed to get out of our 1200 lb Elio again?

I weighed mine at the track and with me in it, it was 1515 Lbs.

 

[Ian442]

Bowers you get all the cool stuff

 

[Coss]

Bowers you get all the cool stuff

I agree, when I saw that Royal Enfield in that one picture my jaw dropped; Nice Bike!!

Rickb, this was a quote from TexasElio back in January............



That certainly wasn't the last we heard from him.
Too bad the Moderators didn't comply with his request.

Oh well !!!!

It's in process .....

 

[bowers baldwin]

Bowers you get all the cool stuff

My wife might disagree with that, around my house the "cool stuff" is known as junk.
(speaking of cool stuff) Hey since you're close, do you ever go to the cabin fever expo? http://www.cabinfeverexpo.com

 

[Elio Amazed]

Well thought out, well spoken and all true.
Except for the comment about "mean spirited" members.
That's a matter of opinion. Everyone has one.

As far as throwing the old "troll" label around in this particular thread...
Increase your sensetivity to humor, and you might find a lot of tounge in cheek in the previous responses.

I don't respond well to being scolded.
Nor do I respond well to being talked down to in regard to whether or not my expressions of humor help or hurt EM.

You tell us that you've chosen to initiate an attempt to secure a refund of your reservation fee.
With Rick, I wish you the best of luck. One of your points was whether "our" behavior was helpful or harmful to EM.
So, is publishing the fact that you're making an attempt to get your reservation fee refunded helping or hurting EM?

What you don't seem to understand is that I and likely others here do understand where James is coming from.
I, for one, have been long aware of everything you've stated in your last two responses.
In the end, It's all in how we, as individuals, choose to act on all the information available to us.
Not how we "choose" to interpret that information, but how we choose to act on it.

It seems that a great many are in this till the end and they stand by their original commitment to the risk they took.
Though it's usually kept under wraps here, your opinion is valued and you are appreciated.

You just need to quit ignoring the outrageous humor being thrown around here almost constantly.
MY opinion is that you need to lay back, chill a bit, laugh at us often and maybe laugh at yourself once in a while.

If you can't see where I'm coming from, I guess you risk being labeled a mean spirited, humorless person.
And I guess that could be interpreted in meaning that I could be labeled a name-caller. Still not see where I'm coming from?
Besides, if you don't lighten up and try to become part of the solution, I may just fart live.