Horse Power

[Ocean9000]

sorry, folks - it's more like 4-5A for a 1/4 hp and 6-8A for a 1/2 hp, don't blame me - mean ole Mr. Thermodynamics will bite you every time


(edit, this is very rough rule-of-thumb for common NEMA motors - high RPM and speciality motors vary widely...)

 

[Folks]

sorry, folks - it's more like 4-5A for a 1/4 hp and 6-8A for a 1/2 hp, don't blame me - mean ole Mr. Thermodynamics will bite you every time

crap! You mean we don't live in a perfect world. Now I know why I get so tired when I get hot.

 

[Smitty901]

I can't help it...

1 horsepower (mechanical)=

the amount of energy needed to lift 1 pound 33,000 feet in one minute
746.0 watts (electric motors)
745.7 watts or 550 pound-feet per sec. (in the US)
735.5 watts or 75 kilogram-metres per sec. (metric, I'm looking at you, Wheaters)

Horsepower = Torque (lb-ft) X RPM /5252

and BTW, food Calories are actually kcals (calories X 1000) and are determined by complete combustion in a bomb calorimeter


Arg!

Got all that but then how can you take the same engine and switch Exhaust and intake and change torque but not much HP. Example if I add disks on the exhaust and allow it to flow freer HP goes up on top end it goes faster once wide open , torque drops. If I remove disks Torque goes up on the lower end . HP does not get effected much it may even drop a bit. But the better torque launches the 1100 pound bike a lot better. Not going to get started on adding and lean out fuel , we will be here until the fist ELIO rolls out the door.
(super trap type exhaust disk work back wards of baffles)

 

[Ocean9000]

Smitty - where (in the RPM range) you change the torque makes a big difference - as you see in the formula, torque is only equal to HP at 5252 RPM. Adding torque below that point gains proportionally less HP. The supertrapp is a tunable pipe, you have a wider, flatter power band as you tune to a lower peak, narrower and higher as you tune for higher RPM. There is no free lunch, but you can have what works best for you.
My newest bike has a very flat torque curve, over 75 lb-ft from 3000 to red line and will show tail-light to bikes with way more HP - at least to 60 or so, after that, I can lose 'em in the corners which is more fun anyway. (It has a Drummer SS, BTW)

 

[Ocean9000]

This holds true to a greater or lesser extent with changes to intake, exhaust, cams, valve sizes, ports and a few others with the notable exceptions of compression ratios and displacement (when piston speed is not a limiting factor)

 

[outsydthebox]

..... There is no free lunch....
)

That is what is so cool about the new Elio engine...."variable lift/duration" gives the best of both worlds. You get the low end-torque of a smaller cam, and the top-end hp of a larger cam.

 

[Ocean9000]

Absolutely true, and I think it's brilliant - effectively one motor with two different camshafts. Sadly, the first model, which I will get, only incorporates variable lift and apparently only on the intake cam lobes. I understand that variable duration was considered but rejected as being too costly to implement and unnecessary to achieve the performance targets. If they ever decide to implement it, 80+ HP would be easily reached, I would think.

 

[goofyone]

My guess is that whenever EM gets around to developing the turbo version they have discussed, and even left assembly line space for, this will include a head upgrade which will include a full on modern VVT setup. I am actually hoping they will do something like an optional 80 HP naturally aspirated engine and a 100 HP turbo version as I think they could make some good money selling various versions of their engine with various power levels.

With some minor improvements I do belive 80 HP is easily achievable out of the IAV/EM engine design. I believe this because we know the engine is being designed for 65-70 HP as is with the intention of de-tuning it to maximize MPG. EM has even told us they plan to eventually sell ECU upgrades so owners can unlock some or all of this additional power potential. All they would have to do is increase the power 11 HP from 55 to 66 and this would be a 20% power boost which is enough that it would be noticeable to the driver.

 

[Ocean9000]

My guess is that whenever EM gets around to developing the turbo version they have discussed, and even left assembly line space for, this will include a head upgrade which will include a full on modern VVT setup. I am actually hoping they will do something like an optional 80 HP naturally aspirated engine and a 100 HP turbo version as I think they could make some good money selling various versions of their engine with various power levels.

With some minor improvements I do belive 80 HP is easily achievable out of the IAV/EM engine design. I believe this because we know the engine is being designed for 65-70 HP as is with the intention of de-tuning it to maximize MPG. EM has even told us they plan to eventually sell ECU upgrades so owners can unlock some or all of this additional power potential. All they would have to do is increase the power 11 HP from 55 to 66 and this would be a 20% power boost which is enough that it would be noticeable to the driver.

Please, please let the ECU upgrade be switchable - Eco/Sport type, I would pay in advance... better yet, switchable and let me have program access (hehe, wringing hands and cackling madly...) Like this: http://www.erikbuellracing.com/store/parts-accessories/fuel-injection/ddfi-3-xb-and1125-programmable-ecm-kit.html
only two level.

 

[goofyone]

Please, please let the ECU upgrade be switchable - Eco/Sport type, I would pay in advance... better yet, switchable and let me have program access (hehe, wringing hands and cackling madly...) Like this: http://www.erikbuellracing.com/store/parts-accessories/fuel-injection/ddfi-3-xb-and1125-programmable-ecm-kit.html
only two level.

Switchable on demand would be nice and I would hope EM would consider that. However from what Paul Elio said when he discussed it the ECU will be encrypted as is unfortunately standard in the industry today.

It is all conceptual right now however actually fairly well thought out. In the August town hall PE told us what he wants to do is use EM software loaded onto your Android/iOS device and essentially an OBD-II dongle for the hardware interface to the vehicle. This way owners could easily do the upgrade themselves as the software would walk owners through the entire process and the upgrade could easily be locked to the vehicle VIN. Not exactly what us gearheads want to hear but from the point of view of EM's business model this is the smart way for them to handle this.