Function & Cost Of Amt Vs Manual: Interesting...

[Elio Amazed]

Guys,
One of my points is that the AMT is both.
If you choose to use it as a pure "manual", you can bang those 5 gears up and down as hard as you want.
All it's missing is the clutch pedal. Do you really need the pedal?

 

[Elio Amazed]

You know what I just thought about? (I hate when people start out with a question I can't possibly know the answer to) Let me start over.

Elio just stated that the P5 will have the new Elio motor and (a very specific) transmission. They KNOW which transmission it is going to get. Have they mentioned which one it is yet? That would give us all something to look at. It would be a kick to have them come out and say that the AMT is going to be a lot less expensive upgrade over the MT... If the AMT gets better gas mileage AND lets me shift myself... I'll have to try it out before making the decision.

According to what I think I remember as being EM material, it will get better gas mileage and it will let you shift yourself.
But not at the same time. If you shift it yourself, you won't get the optimum gas mileage.

Well, that's two vehicles that appear to have AMTs that are cheaper than their 'manual only' counterparts.
Gotta be a story here somewhere.

 

[WilliamH]

Guys,
One of my points is that the AMT is both.
If you choose to use it as a pure "manual", you can bang those 5 gears up and down as hard as you want.
All it's missing is the clutch pedal. Do you really need the pedal?

........."Do you really need the pedal to make jammin' the gears fun?"............
As a matter of fact yes!
But that's also what is nice about choice.
You can have your quasi pseudo sorta automatic thingee with no clutch and I can have my manual with a clutch.

 

[Elio Amazed]

........."Do you really need the pedal to make jammin' the gears fun?"............
As a matter of fact yes!
But that's also what is nice about choice.
You can have your quasi pseudo sorta automatic thingee with no clutch and I can have my manual with a clutch.

Fair enough.

 

[WilliamH]

The link that Elio Amazed gave us had some interesting info.
( Thank you for finding this Elio Amazed. )
The first Suzuki tested was the low end model which interesting enough came standard with the AMT (auto shift).
( Interesting to note, you don't get air bags in the low end product. May account for the seemingly lower price. )
The second did some comparison between the manual and the AMT versions.
As has been reported elsewhere, just about the same mileage.
The difference was acceleration 0 to 100 kph (0 to 60 for us Americans)
......... AMT was 15.9 sec
..........man was 14.9 sec
While you are watching the second one, note a "delta trike truck" being passed at about 4:10
Any way, here's the link.

Remember, you want to watch the second one also.

 

[Ekh]

Guys,
One of my points is that the AMT is both.
If you choose to use it as a pure "manual", you can bang those 5 gears up and down as hard as you want.
All it's missing is the clutch pedal. Do you really need the pedal?

If you're fond of double shifts, e.g., 1-3 or 2-4, will the AMT accommodate you?

 

[Jambe]

It's + or - one gear, but it is fast.

 

[Coss]

Back in the early 70's the VW Beetle had a transmission called the AutoStik
You had to shift, but there was no clutch pedal
The clutch would engage when you put your hand (or any other body part, like your leg) against it; hence the problem.
People would drive with their hand resting on the gearshift or a leg up against it (it's a Beetle, it's small) and the clutch would "think" you were going to shift so it would disengage. People kept thinking there was a problem with it because the motor would spin up and they weren't going anywhere. It was discontinued soon after. German people knew to use two hands on the wheel to drive, that's why they couldn't understand why Americans had such a problem (same problem they had when they first started exporting high end cars; why do you need cup holders? )

Here's a home video of the AutoStik

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

AMT -vs- Manual

Both are the same transmissions. We got that.
So the difference is above and beyond the actual transmission is:

AMT:
Clutch Servo
Shifting Servos
Computer (electronics)
Power pack
Additional Sensors
Electrical shifter (basically a switch)

Manual:
Extra Pedal and Cable
Mechanical Shifter and push/pull cables

From a cost stand point the manual components will be $100, maybe less compared to $500-600 for the electronic components.
It's not really that close.

From an efficiency standpoint, the winner goes to the AMT. Remember, a computer is involved and making the decisions. the gas pedal tells the computer what you want and the electronic box decides when to shift compensating for temperature, pressure, engine rpm, present speed, and gravimetric distortions. It will shift based on sensors and predetermined algorithms. It will shift far more efficiency and consistently than even the BEST drivers.

But with the AMT, you are giving up control. Yes, you can shift + or - with the "stick" switch. But what's the point of doing that? You're not going to choose the proper gear better than a computer. Even if you could, you are still shackled by an automatic clutch that you ultimately have no control over. It is not a $30,000 double clutch from a super car. It's a $50 clutch that's been around for 100 years connected to a servo that is designed and programmed for conservative and efficient driving. It will likely not be fast or sporty.

So what are the advantages?

AMT:
Ease of use.
More fuel efficient
Likely longer lasting clutch

Manual:
Simple Design
Cheaper
(possibly more sporty)

Edit:

In addition, the fuel efficiency increase with the AMT will ONLY be observed in city driving and even then, only 1-3 MPG.
At highway speeds, there is no shifting, thus, no efficiency gained with an automatic shifter.

Finally, Elio Motors needs to be VERY careful marketing the AMT.
You have seen multiple threads of potential customers and even gear heads that are not entirely sure what an AMT is.
The danger is someone buying an AMT think it is a conventional Torque Converter Automatic Transmission and disappointed with the lack of smoothness or overall feel which would lead to complaints affecting the reputation of the Elio.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

The link that Elio Amazed gave us had some interesting info.
( Thank you for finding this Elio Amazed. )
The first Suzuki tested was the low end model which interesting enough came standard with the AMT (auto shift).
( Interesting to note, you don't get air bags in the low end product. May account for the seemingly lower price. )
The second did some comparison between the manual and the AMT versions.
As has been reported elsewhere, just about the same mileage.
The difference was acceleration 0 to 100 kph (0 to 60 for us Americans)
......... AMT was 15.9 sec
..........man was 14.9 sec
While you are watching the second one, note a "delta trike truck" being passed at about 4:10
Any way, here's the link.

Remember, you want to watch the second one also.

Added for ease of use.