Financing Elio Motors Development And Production

[goofyone]

Thanks for that detailed information and the links.

Your welcome, it is great to be able to read this information for yourself. The link to the guidelines pretty much explains how the DOE interprets the law which is very important to understand as it can be different from the way we may interpret it.

One of the most misunderstood parts of the program is the funding part as the law says this: “must be financially viable without the receipt of additional federal funding for the proposed project”. I have read many posts where people think that means something completely different from the interpretation which the DOE provides in their guidelines:

3) APPLICANT FINANCIAL ELIGIBILITY [10 CFR 611.100(A)(2)]:
In order to be financially eligible under the ATVMLP, the applicant “must be financially viable without the receipt of additional federal funding for the proposed project”.

a) “Financially Viable”: The applicant will be deemed “financially viable” for purposes of 10 CFR 611.100(a)(2) if (i) there is a reasonable prospect that the applicant will be able to pay principal and interest as and when due under the ATVM loan and (ii) the applicant has a net present value that is positive, taking all costs, existing and future, into account. (See definition of “financially viable” in 10 CFR 611.2.) 10 CFR 611.100(c) sets forth a non-exhaustive list of the factors considered by the ATVMLP in determining whether the applicant is financially viable.

b) “Additional Federal Funding”: 10 CFR 611.100(d) lists forms of direct and indirect assistance from the federal government which would be considered “additional federal funding” for purposes of 10 CFR
611.100(a)(2).

http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/...r-Applicants-Final-Version-October-5-2012.pdf

Luckily I have spent a good bit of time in my career working on government projects and I have learned to understand that what I may believe the law says may be very different than the way the government agency interprets the law and in many cases the way they interpret it is the one that counts.

 

[BADBOY]

What's your point? Lack of information to pass on to the public doesn't qualify someone as being a liar or not transparent.

They have informed us every step of the way, I don't understand the issue?

It's much more efficient to work for months at a time and then release a lot of information than it is to work each day and at the end of the day say "well we figured out the nut and bolt would be better if it were moved 2 cm to the left today"

We should expect NOTHING but a vehicle at a reasonable period of time and be GRATEFUL for any information they give us on the journey to that period in time. That's what we signed up for. Pointless complaining that they are doing something very minimal the way you prefer. If you have a better idea, I invite everyone to start their own auto company. End of story.

No, it is the end of story for you and only the end of story for me when I say it is for me. The issue is PE said he had money to go on without loan and now says he does not. That may not be a lie but without explaining it, it does not sound like being honest to many of us. You nor anyone else can get around that. You can accept the info anyway you want but so can I and that is the issue. I have not complained or even mention when or how often the information comes and do not know why you bring it up? It is not the frequency but simply one piece of info about financing the company and then saying you cannot. Things happen and he does not have to say what but then he gets the negative feedback.

Complaining by others does not get to be defined by you. You can voice your opinion but I have the right to mine. I and others signed up based upon what PE and others said. I believed him and now that is not true. I get to deal with that the way I decide not you. The following statement by you is ridiculous and you should realize that.

""well we figured out the nut and bolt would be better if it were moved 2 cm to the left today".
No one is asking or even suggesting he give more info or more often just don't say you have money and then say you don't. If he lost investor(s) there are ways to say that without causing negative waves.

I get to criticize anyone and/or anything without having to have a better plan. If you don't like my apples don't shake my tree.

 

[JEBar]

over 30+ years of working inside NC's prisons I learned many things .... some, I really wish I hadn't .... one reality I learned is folks tend to believe that the way they think is the way everyone should think .... what's normal to us, should be normal to everyone else .... that's the basis for the majority/folks in power making laws and expecting the minority who may not agree to conform .... folks who are honest and try to be truthful, tend to believe others are honest and truthful until proven otherwise .... the converse of that is true .... I don't know Paul Elio personally but thorough watching, listening, reading and speaking with folks who do, I tend to believe he's an honest fellow with a dream who will do all he can to bring it into reality .... I believed him when he said they had sufficient private financing, I believe him when he now says they don't .... to me that indicates something changed and without knowledge of why, I can't automatically jump directly to him not being truthful .... others are certainly free to form their own belief

 

[mdfb42]

No, it is the end of story for you and only the end of story for me when I say it is for me. The issue is PE said he had money to go on without loan and now says he does not. That may not be a lie but without explaining it, it does not sound like being honest to many of us. You nor anyone else can get around that. You can accept the info anyway you want but so can I and that is the issue. I have not complained or even mention when or how often the information comes and do not know why you bring it up? It is not the frequency but simply one piece of info about financing the company and then saying you cannot. Things happen and he does not have to say what but then he gets the negative feedback.

Complaining by others does not get to be defined by you. You can voice your opinion but I have the right to mine. I and others signed up based upon what PE and others said. I believed him and now that is not true. I get to deal with that the way I decide not you. The following statement by you is ridiculous and you should realize that.

""well we figured out the nut and bolt would be better if it were moved 2 cm to the left today".
No one is asking or even suggesting he give more info or more often just don't say you have money and then say you don't. If he lost investor(s) there are ways to say that without causing negative waves.

I get to criticize anyone and/or anything without having to have a better plan. If you don't like my apples don't shake my tree.

This all began when what's his face was complaining about transparency. Then you piled on. So talking about the information and "lying" by PE is completely relevant if you understand what CONTEXT means.

It's still not lying by saying you believe you have the money only to later find out that you lost and investor or the expenses were greater than expected. Still not lying, part of trying to accurately project the future and doesn't always work (seldomly accurate with start ups).

Your quote "I and others signed up based upon what PE and others said. I believed him and now that is not true. "

That statement alone shows you don't understand business nor business investing. Giving someone money based on what they say instead of the facts of the agreement is completely ignorant. No wonder we have terrible leadership in this country when people keep deciding on words instead of facts/actions. That quote let me discredit your entire rant because you were ignorant enough to base your decision on a persons words, expecting them to be accurate by way of predicting the future (hint: no one can predict the future), instead of basing them on what the actual TERMS AND CONDITIONS say the agreeing is.

And the term end of story, refers to a similar one of "point proven" as in all points have been made, no more are needed to complete it. Obviously you aren't familiar with that in the english language and you have an issue with comprehension as well as being stuck in the teenager mindset of "no one can tell me what to do". Seems to me you have many of deep, unresolved issues completely outside of your perceived Elio issue. Good luck with that.

 

[eddie66]

over 30+ years of working inside NC's prisons I learned many things .... some, I really wish I hadn't .... one reality I learned is folks tend to believe that the way they think is the way everyone should think .... what's normal to us, should be normal to everyone else .... that's the basis for the majority/folks in power making laws and expecting the minority who may not agree to conform .... folks who are honest and try to be truthful, tend to believe others are honest and truthful until proven otherwise .... the converse of that is true .... I don't know Paul Elio personally but thorough watching, listening, reading and speaking with folks who do, I tend to believe he's an honest fellow with a dream who will do all he can to bring it into reality .... I believed him when he said they had sufficient private financing, I believe him when he now says they don't .... to me that indicates something changed and without knowledge of why, I can't automatically jump directly to him not being truthful .... others are certainly free to form their own belief

I too hope he can turn things around, but when Caddo Parish gave Elio Motors a six month extension, it also postponed the fines Paul would have to have paid to Racer's Trust if he didn't produce the1500 jobs he promised by the end of this year. Also losing the plant is a strong possibility, if he doesn't come up with the funding soon. Things don't seem to be going in Paul's favor.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...01/16/production-wheel-elio-delayed/21849385/

 

[wayne kemp]

If Paul doesn't have the money now 6 months will be the same. Luck or his ability just isn't there.
Sure hope I'm wrong but I'm betting I'm not. So write this on the bathroom wall so you can nag me if I'm wrong.

 

[satx]

My maybe naive stance is that PE was truthful when said he had funds and didn't need the ATVM.

Something has changed about "he had funds" so that he doesn't now, and he's being truthful, again.

I've become so cynical about the powerful, unstoppable politics of HUGE money of vested interests that I "imagine" that the Elio was going to "move some rat(s)'s chee$e", so the rat(s) got to the Elio investors(s) and convinced them to pull out, probably with compensation, because nothing happens in USA unless somebody gets paid.

It wouldn't be the first time. We know that BigCarbon and auto mfrs have slowed and/or blocked USA urban transit, light rail, regional rail, and high speed rail to keep people buying cars and fuel. We know Southwest airlines killed the Texas high-speed rail in the early 90s. We know BigCarbon and centralized electric utilities are spending BIG, through proxies like ALEC, to retard or kill distributed (rooftop) solar. etc, etc.

There $Ts invested in, and expected from, today's "people moving". The investors and recipients of those $Ts don't want any disruption from something like an successful Elio and its very probable, probably better copycats. "free market" is a total myth. "entry barriers" erected by incumbents are VERY high.

 

[JEBar]

I too hope he can turn things around, but when Caddo Parish gave Elio Motors a six month extension, it also postponed the fines Paul would have to have paid to Racer's Trust if he didn't produce the1500 jobs he promised by the end of this year. Also losing the plant is a strong possibility, if he doesn't come up with the funding soon. Things don't seem to be going in Paul's favor.

I couldn't agree more .... months ago several of us on the forum openly questioned if it would be possible to begin production in 2015 .... there just seemed to be too many big things that need to happen to make it work .... with the exception of a (hopefully) running engine, those factors are still in place and the announcement of being $240 million short has to magnify them .... how EM can overcome that in the additional 6 months is beyond me .... in the face they are presenting to the public, they say they they can .... time will tell .... if I had to place a wager today as if EM will go into production prior to mid 2016, I'd be hard pressed to bet anything I value on them doing so .... Paul Elio introduced the funding shortage to the conversation and its a topic that won't go away until answered .... all that being said, I have no doubt that they are working to make it happen and I'm content to sit and watch .... the reality is I don't know of anything more I can do

 

[eddie66]

My maybe naive stance is that PE was truthful when said he had funds and didn't need the ATVM.

Something has changed about "he had funds" so that he doesn't now, and he's being truthful, again.

I've become so cynical about the powerful, unstoppable politics of HUGE money of vested interests that I "imagine" that the Elio was going to "move some rat(s)'s chee$e", so the rat(s) got to the Elio investors(s) and convinced them to pull out, probably with compensation, because nothing happens in USA unless somebody gets paid.

It wouldn't be the first time. We know that BigCarbon and auto mfrs have slowed and/or blocked USA urban transit, light rail, regional rail, and high speed rail to keep people buying cars and fuel. We know Southwest airlines killed the Texas high-speed rail in the early 90s. We know BigCarbon and centralized electric utilities are spending BIG, through proxies like ALEC, to retard or kill distributed (rooftop) solar. etc, etc.

There $Ts invested in, and expected from, today's "people moving". The investors and recipients of those $Ts don't want any disruption from something like an successful Elio and its very probable, probably better copycats. "free market" is a total myth. "entry barriers" erected by incumbents are VERY high.

I don't think Paul intended to deceive anyone, as some folks here would have you believe. As G1 stated, he over estimated, and over paid for the equipment in the plant. I' m sure he knew funding was an issue for some time.

 

[Smitty901]

IF ELIO laid out a good business plan. One that showed a reasonable chance of working with a fair return on investment. The money would be there.
Investors do not invest in marketing. They have been burned to many times. 200, 230 240 million who knows the number changes a lot. Is pocket change in this world of investment.
I had hoped that the all in reservation would be a selling point for ELIO to attract money, seems it failed. Who knows why not enough of them ,too soon to late? Fact is Marketing ELIO has not resulted in a company that can move to production. Bring in the business Manager, the hard core , cold hearted money person. It will hurt like heck but will darn sure sort out the issue quick. After that if ELIO has a chance it will sore to new heights.