Elio On Tv

[floydv]

I don't know how much you all are thinking that EM is spending on these ads. I'd be shocked if the total ad buy for this round reaches the low six figures. These are not multi-million dollar Superbowl ads we're talking about. It's several 30 or 60 second spots on cable news networks and semi-popular expanded package channels. There's no way it is eating significantly into the engineering budget as I don't see PE risking the end product to spend on ads.

Good point. The offering circular showed a projected budget of $414,000 to $1.625M for advertising, depending on the amount of funds raised. Doesn't sound like EM would've or could've spent a ton on the national ads given these figures.

 

[TommysElio]

Saw this commercial first time this morning on FOX

 

[Elio Amazed]

Cha-ching$!

 

[DeltaMike]

Yes. You are very correct. States can easily pass a law requiring all autocycles to meet these requirements. It would be easy.

This is why I am All-In for two vehicles. I want to get mine early while they are still classified motorcycles. I believe the Federal Autocycle Legislation will not pass until the federal government sees several of them on the road and EM is going to be around a long time pumping out a lot of them.

I take a different tilt....
CAFE. From a conversation w Jerome, that alone could do wonders in financing the Elio to the delight if other automakers who do not want to make cheap, high mileage cars. Others have commented extensively on this. It DOES matter to me if it affects the viability of this project. I disagree that Federal autocycle legislation will affect insurance and registration in my (progressive, Oregon) state (where we already have autocycle classification) in any material degree. Also doubt it will affect diamond/HOV lanes.

 

[Rickb]

I take a different tilt....
CAFE. From a conversation w Jerome, that alone could do wonders in financing the Elio to the delight if other automakers who do not want to make cheap, high mileage cars. Others have commented extensively on this. It DOES matter to me if it affects the viability of this project. I disagree that Federal autocycle legislation will affect insurance and registration in my (progressive, Oregon) state (where we already have autocycle classification) in any material degree. Also doubt it will affect diamond/HOV lanes.

Paul Elio used the CAFE argument to sell the Caddo Parrish Commission on how profitable and successful EM would be, saying that they were working on legislation to allow the Elio to qualify for CAFE credits, hopefully by the end of 2014 in the nick of time for the 2015 production schedule.

EM needs to be funded and in production looooooooong before the Elio motorcycle would even be considered a vehicle class that qualifies for CAFE which is currently cars and trucks. It's better for us if EM is successful with profit made from Elio sales, not CAFE sales.

The Federal level proposed Autocycle Legislation won't even be considered until there are actually autocycles to legislate. Get 50,000 - 250,000 + Elio's on the Nation's highways and there may be some discussion on the Federal level about the need for legislation.

 

[Coss]

Saw this commercial first time this morning on FOX

Very good; was it Fox or Fox Sports 1?

 

[DeltaMike]

Paul Elio used the CAFE argument to sell the Caddo Parrish Commission on how profitable and successful EM would be, saying that they were working on legislation to allow the Elio to qualify for CAFE credits, hopefully by the end of 2014 in the nick of time for the 2015 production schedule.

EM needs to be funded and in production looooooooong before the Elio motorcycle would even be considered a vehicle class that qualifies for CAFE which is currently cars and trucks. It's better for us if EM is successful with profit made from Elio sales, not CAFE sales.

The Federal level proposed Autocycle Legislation won't even be considered until there are actually autocycles to legislate. Get 50,000 - 250,000 + Elio's on the Nation's highways and there may be some discussion on the Federal level about the need for legislation.

Actually, I don't disagree. What I differ with is the idea that Federal autocycle legislation is bad for me as a potential Elio owner.
What I sense is that it is easy for those of us on this forum to critique Paul and his team -- perhaps justifiably so. I also have some appreciation for how mindbendingly complex this is. And we know something less than the whole picture. As long as his heart is in the right place, someone has to make the tough calls. I'm fine with it being him since he has the most to lose or gain.
Except as to the gauges...just kidding! :-)

 

[floydv]

Paul Elio used the CAFE argument to sell the Caddo Parrish Commission on how profitable and successful EM would be, saying that they were working on legislation to allow the Elio to qualify for CAFE credits, hopefully by the end of 2014 in the nick of time for the 2015 production schedule.

EM needs to be funded and in production looooooooong before the Elio motorcycle would even be considered a vehicle class that qualifies for CAFE which is currently cars and trucks. It's better for us if EM is successful with profit made from Elio sales, not CAFE sales.

The Federal level proposed Autocycle Legislation won't even be considered until there are actually autocycles to legislate. Get 50,000 - 250,000 + Elio's on the Nation's highways and there may be some discussion on the Federal level about the need for legislation.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with a part of your premise, Rickb. Do you have a reference in support of your point that the federal autocycle bill won't even be considered until there are Elios on the road to legislate?

I know of no such law or procedural rule in either house in Congress that prohibits the prospective legislation of an expected new class of vehicles or other products. Congress has plenary authority to regulate interstate commerce, including instruments of commerce like motor vehicles, and it can certainly decide to legislate on something like a vehicle that's not yet on the road (e.g. if they chose to, Congress could've decided to enact a bill banning the Nano Tata from ever coming to the U.S. under any circumstance, even before the Tata was even introduced in India).

I agree that Elio couldn't be issued CAFE credits before they sell any vehicles, but that's an entirely different issue from saying Congress can't even consider passing a bill that prospectively paves the way for autocycles to qualify for CAFE credits and gets such credits once they're sold here.

 

[Rickb]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with a part of your premise, Rickb. Do you have a reference in support of your point that the federal autocycle bill won't even be considered until there are Elios on the road to legislate?

I know of no such law or procedural rule in either house in Congress that prohibits the prospective legislation of an expected new class of vehicles or other products. Congress has plenary authority to regulate interstate commerce, including instruments of commerce like motor vehicles, and it can certainly decide to legislate on something like a vehicle that's not yet on the road (e.g. if they chose to, Congress could've decided to enact a bill banning the Nano Tata from ever coming to the U.S. under any circumstance, even before the Tata was even introduced in India).

I agree that Elio couldn't be issued CAFE credits before they sell any vehicles, but that's an entirely different issue from saying Congress can't even consider passing a bill that prospectively paves the way for autocycles to qualify for CAFE credits and gets such credits once they're sold here.

I didn't say autocycle legislation was prohibited, but think it's unlikely to become a priority. After 10 years of following enclosed three wheeler concepts, most turning to vaporware, I don't even have a reference to support my 'gut feeling' that sooner or later some bold new startup company or innovative big auto manufacturer like Toyota, will finally get that affordable enclosed three wheeler (motorcycle) to market so I can finally buy/drive one.

I would prefer it remains classified as a motorcycle with the autocycle subclassification. Soliciting the federal government to define and set standards for a new autocycle classification will only add regulation, safety requirements/testing, and red tape that may slow the production process...........and no I don't have a specific reference to support that point either other than the existing regulation for auto classified vehicles.

The fact that the Elio is currently classified as a MC allows EM to 'expedite production' without all the Federal Auto Safety/Testing Requirements & Regulations that would increase the cost of production dramatically.
I would like to see EM actually expedite production.

 

[floydv]

I didn't say autocycle legislation was prohibited, but think it's unlikely to become a priority. After 10 years of following enclosed three wheeler concepts, most turning to vaporware, I don't even have a reference to support my 'gut feeling' that sooner or later some bold new startup company or innovative big auto manufacturer like Toyota, will finally get that affordable enclosed three wheeler (motorcycle) to market so I can finally buy/drive one.

I would prefer it remains classified as a motorcycle with the autocycle subclassification. Soliciting the federal government to define and set standards for a new autocycle classification will only add regulation, safety requirements/testing, and red tape that may slow the production process...........and no I don't have a specific reference to support that point either other than the existing regulation for auto classified vehicles.

The fact that the Elio is currently classified as a MC allows EM to 'expedite production' without all the Federal Auto Safety/Testing Requirements & Regulations that would increase the cost of production dramatically.
I would like to see EM actually expedite production.

On your last point, SB 685 as currently drafted provides a 3-yr window for NHTSA to adopt autocycle-specific rules and regulations. The bill also requires those rules and regulations to provide an appropriate lead time for applying the requirements to autocycle manufactures. So it's entirely possible that the autocycle-specific safety regulations wouldn't kick in for EM until 5 or more years after SB 685 is signed into law (fingers crossed). In the meantime, the bill provides for motorcycle standards to apply to autocycles. I would also point out that SB 685 as currently drafted provides for the qualification of autocycles for CAFE credits immediately upon the bill's signing into law.

It seems clear to me that EM has put quite a bit of thought into the crafting of this bill.