Elio Engine Block

[outsydthebox]

IAV Engineer talks about Elio engine

So, we have an answer to the "compression ratio" question: current target is 10.5 to 1...but they might "try" 11 to 1.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Just so you know...
This thread is about the elio engine block..
Would be nice to keep this on topic.
Do have any thing to contribute about the topic being discussed?

Passive aggressive, how adorable.
I was just stating that your source was unreliable.

just sayin'

 

[Smitty901]

So, we have an answer to the "compression ratio" question: current target is 10.5 to 1...but they might "try" 11 to 1.

Now this is the first numbers I have seen. It is pretty much understood that the higher the compression the higher the octane fuel is required. It is generally excepted that once you hit 10 to1 that 91 is needed to prevent pre or early non spark induce dentition. Simple way to put it stop the gas from firing on compress and heat alone. This is something we deal with on some motorcycles. You can tune it out to some degree there is wiggle room. but not much with out other effects on tune and performance. Also once you get to 10 to 1 it gets hard on starters and batteries, It is the reason starting in 2011-2012 all 103 HD engines come with Automatic compression releases. Added cost but necessary.
That is what happen to the Smart (dumb) car. It requires at least 91 octane at a much higher price, that wipes out a lot of the fuel saving.
At 60 cents or more a gallon you can afford to lose some MPG to get back to 87 octane.

 

[harlan stephens]

Some tricks used it the auto industries are knock sensors that send info to the computer and in some cases retard timing on the fly....
I had been wondering with this higher compression motor if knock sensors will be included?

 

[outsydthebox]

Now this is the first numbers I have seen. It is pretty much understood that the higher the compression the higher the octane fuel is required. It is generally excepted that once you hit 10 to1 that 91 is needed to prevent pre or early non spark induce dentition. Simple way to put it stop the gas from firing on compress and heat alone. This is something we deal with on some motorcycles. You can tune it out to some degree there is wiggle room. but not much with out other effects on tune and performance. Also once you get to 10 to 1 it gets hard on starters and batteries, It is the reason starting in 2011-2012 all 103 HD engines come with Automatic compression releases. Added cost but necessary.
That is what happen to the Smart (dumb) car. It requires at least 91 octane at a much higher price, that wipes out a lot of the fuel saving.
At 60 cents or more a gallon you can afford to lose some MPG to get back to 87 octane.

In the video,(forgot name) the IAV guy, stated that it would be designed to use "low octane."
Goofy commented on this topic about a week ago(?). He mentioned that Mazda is currently using high compression successfully. The pics show a "heart shaped" chamber (head) will have a large "quench" area. This, combined with an EGR cooler, Aluminum block & heads, removing sharp edges from the combustion chamber...and a knock sensor......."should" make it possible.

 

[NSTG8R]

Knock sensors, I think, were mentioned in the Kody video. I'll have to listen to it again.

 

[Hog]

IAV primary shareholder is VW. No production engines as of yet.
"...In June, the supplier added a location in Auburn Hills, MI, which includes capabilities for hardware-in-loop testing. More than 15 people occupy the office, and headcount is expected to reach 25 by year’s end. The supplier plans to grow this number to 50 in 2014.//.."
"...This year, capacity utilization is down to about 85% because of a wider range of customer projects that require more setup time. While last year’s focus was on diesel, this year’s work in the test cells is split almost evenly between gasoline and diesel projects, the supplier says...."

Mostly geared as an R&D testing facility.

Currently list 115 US employees on LinkedIn

"..The U.S. subsidiary grew stateside on the backs of its German owners. Volkswagen AG owns 50 percent of IAV, Continental AG holds 20 percent and Schaeffler Technologies AG & Co. KG 10 percent. .."

IAV just does R&D, they have no production engines released. The Elio may very well be the very first one, providing that IAV actually makes it, but why would they when VW is the 50% shareholder?

Just wondering.

 

[carzes]

Indeed. Volvo for example, has been using the cam cover as the upper cam bearing for years; http://www.atthetipwebs.com/technologyinstructions/volvo/S70/PICT7968-Small.JPG
It makes for a stiffer assembly as the cam cover is a bearing cap girdle at that point. No cam flex happening here.

This should also necessitate a stiffer valve cover which will be less prone to warping and leaking oil. My experience with similar engines has been one of constant oil seal issues. Hope that won't be the case with this one.

 

[harlan stephens]

anyway......
Here is a pic of the metro block and a head with the cams fitted to compare and contrast.

 

[goofyone]

IAV primary shareholder is VW. No production engines as of yet.
"...In June, the supplier added a location in Auburn Hills, MI, which includes capabilities for hardware-in-loop testing. More than 15 people occupy the office, and headcount is expected to reach 25 by year’s end. The supplier plans to grow this number to 50 in 2014.//.."
"...This year, capacity utilization is down to about 85% because of a wider range of customer projects that require more setup time. While last year’s focus was on diesel, this year’s work in the test cells is split almost evenly between gasoline and diesel projects, the supplier says...."

Mostly geared as an R&D testing facility.

Currently list 115 US employees on LinkedIn

"..The U.S. subsidiary grew stateside on the backs of its German owners. Volkswagen AG owns 50 percent of IAV, Continental AG holds 20 percent and Schaeffler Technologies AG & Co. KG 10 percent. .."

IAV just does R&D, they have no production engines released. The Elio may very well be the very first one, providing that IAV actually makes it, but why would they when VW is the 50% shareholder?

Just wondering.

You really took a lot of things out of context in these quotes and as such you ended up reaching some very strange conclusions. The Auburn Hills, MI facility is the satellite test and R&D center not the primary office where the engineering design work is done. At the end of 2012, before the new test center even opened, IAV already had 160 employees in their main facility in Northville, MI.

http://www.iav.com/us/press/press-r...ng-expands-michigan-opens-office-auburn-hills

http://www.iav.com/sites/default/files/handouts/2014/en-us/engine-design-and-development.pdf

The fact of the matter is that IAV has several decades of history in designing all kinds of vehicle systems including engines which are currently on the market in many manufacturers vehicles. VW being a major owner really has no impact an IAV operations other than it is likely that VW receives priority when scheduling project resources and VW engines get to benefit from the R&D work done for other manufacturers just like all IAV clients. The IAV connection to Elio Motors is actually via 20% owner Continental AG as this is a primary Elio Motors engineering and supplier partner.

We also already know the engine is designed and at least a second round of castings has been produced as some issues were discovered with the earlier casting which were resolved in later castings. We know this because a visible change was made as the Elio logo was upside down on the original cylinder head casting. The last news we had about the Engine, direct from Elio Motors, was that the engine components needed to be machined, assembled, and undergo testing so this is what we are waiting to hear news on.

We all hope to hear news on the engine really soon but Elio Motors will release this information when they feel they are clear to do so and when they can take maximum advantage of the news. Personally I am hoping this information comes out either just before or during the Elio Motors visit to SEMA which is a huge auto industry event during the first week of November.