Elio Crowdfunding

[Kuda]

Hmmm...Makes me wonder. If Congress allows for the Elio to receive CAFE credits by allowing autocycles in the program, will insurance companies see this as a "go" to increase the insurance premiums to an automobile level as well.

CC's are based on mileage.
For the Elio to qualify The
pending bill needs to pass.
The bill modifies the acceptance
criteria but doesn't alter the fact
of the Elio being classified as
a motor cycle for insurance purposes......of course the
insurance companies can
pretty much do what the
market will bear.....

 

[Ty]

I found this bit of the SEC prelim filing really interesting because it answers quite a number of questions that have bounced around this Forum. Here's the chunk in question:

Engineering and Development, to Date; Prototype Build and Design Validation .... Technosports Creative is the Livonia, Michigan-based prototype maker that is partnering with us to build 25 Elio prototypes using a combination of fabricated and soft-tooled and off-the-shelf components provided by the Elio suppliers. Supplier components will take six to eight weeks from engineering drawing release. Computer-aided design models or physical hardware are in place for over 90% of all non-off-the-shelf components. Once the components are available, the actual vehicle builds will likely take four to six weeks. The vehicles will be built on a pilot manufacturing line to simulate the production build. During the prototype build process, issues will be tracked and reported back to the component and vehicle engineering teams to be addressed.​

So, yes, they're using a the prototype builds to model the actual production building process. Yes, they will be producing these things in a batch. Cautionary note: when the document states CAD models or physical hardware are in place for over 90% of the non-off-the-shelf components (in other words, "custom components"), that gets a little sketchy. It's some distance between having a CAD program and having parts in-hand -- and the amount of stuff that exists only in CAD form could be up to 89% of all the custom components. That's certainly not the case, but it could be. Even if it's only 30-40% that's CAD-only at this point, that represents a pretty large possible delay in the prototype program.

They are only talking about the non-off-the-shelf components there. We know they have the body panels (seen the pictures) and the new frame (seen the pictures). What we really don't know is how many non-off-the-shelf items there are.


From the Filing:
Over 65% of the components utilized in the construction of the vehicle’s interior, chassis, powertrain and body, such as the transmission, steering column, brakes, rack and pinion system, airbags, and many others, are either available off-the-shelf or can be modified from off-the-shelf items for use in production of the vehicle.

Also from the filing:
Where the typical small car would require 1,000 to 1,500 components for vehicle assembly, the Elio can be produced with only 270 components.

270 components with 65% being off-the-shelf means that there are 94 components that aren't off-the-shelf. I'm guessing that the engine block, head, oil pan, body panels, interior tidbits, and suspension make up the bulk of that. 90% of those 94 components are either physically there or in CAD and that means there are about 9 components that either aren't there physically or in CAD. I don't see that as a show stopper... I get that you are saying that all those 94 could just be in CAD only which could cause delays and I suppose that's right. I'd worry about the ones that aren't in CAD as some of those components may be quite simple but not in CAD because they are simple to make or obtain.

 

[Ekh]

Now THIS is interesting: Elio has filed for no patents relating to this car.

 

[Ty]

Now THIS is interesting: Elio has filed for no patents relating to this car.

I guess that proves they are using current technology and nothing new.

 

[Ekh]

They are only talking about the non-off-the-shelf components there. We know they have the body panels (seen the pictures) and the new frame (seen the pictures). What we really don't know is how many non-off-the-shelf items there are.


From the Filing:
Over 65% of the components utilized in the construction of the vehicle’s interior, chassis, powertrain and body, such as the transmission, steering column, brakes, rack and pinion system, airbags, and many others, are either available off-the-shelf or can be modified from off-the-shelf items for use in production of the vehicle.

Also from the filing:
Where the typical small car would require 1,000 to 1,500 components for vehicle assembly, the Elio can be produced with only 270 components.

270 components with 65% being off-the-shelf means that there are 94 components that aren't off-the-shelf. I'm guessing that the engine block, head, oil pan, body panels, interior tidbits, and suspension make up the bulk of that. 90% of those 94 components are either physically there or in CAD and that means there are about 9 components that either aren't there physically or in CAD. I don't see that as a show stopper... I get that you are saying that all those 94 could just be in CAD only which could cause delays and I suppose that's right. I'd worry about the ones that aren't in CAD as some of those components may be quite simple but not in CAD because they are simple to make or obtain.

if they're only in CAD, then the makers have to be sourced, negotiated with, tooled up, and production started. That could take quite a while! But I suspect the reality is that some of this stuff is all lined up just waiting the "go" button. I'm not really worried about it, but delays are the nature of the Elio world, and I'm too old to be patient with them!

 

[Ty]

Now THIS is interesting: Elio has filed for no patents relating to this car.

Oh, wait. The design of the Elio is patented...

From the Filing:
Patents. In order to minimize the cost of bring the Elio to market, we have chosen not to apply for patents for any of our
mechanical innovations related to our development of the Elio. The design of the Elio is copyrighted, but others could design a vehicle
similar to the Elio and argue that although similar, the design has not been copied. This means that others could develop a vehicle with
a similar design and produce a competing product, which would adversely affect our business, prospects, financial condition and
operating results.

 

[Ekh]

I guess that proves they are using current technology and nothing new.

Or that they didn't want to go through the cumbersome and expensive process of filing and waiting and waiting and waiting.

 

[Ekh]

Oh, wait. The design of the Elio is patented...

From the Filing:
Patents. In order to minimize the cost of bring the Elio to market, we have chosen not to apply for patents for any of our
mechanical innovations related to our development of the Elio. The design of the Elio is copyrighted, but others could design a vehicle
similar to the Elio and argue that although similar, the design has not been copied. This means that others could develop a vehicle with
a similar design and produce a competing product, which would adversely affect our business, prospects, financial condition and
operating results.

A copyright is not a patent. And a design is not a component.

 

[Ty]

if they're only in CAD, then the makers have to be sourced, negotiated with, tooled up, and production started. That could take quite a while! But I suspect the reality is that some of this stuff is all lined up just waiting the "go" button. I'm not really worried about it, but delays are the nature of the Elio world, and I'm too old to be patient with them!

I'm with you. I really was curious about the content once you brought it up and that post was more me just thinking (typing) my way through it. I think Elio has all the right people waiting to hit "Go". I know they have a steel stamper, spring guys, panel makers, etc... I worry more about the engine line but that's just because I can't see them finding someone with that kind of experience with enough down time to take on a project like Elio.

 

[Ty]

A copyright is not a patent. And a design is not a component.

You are right. I didn't even notice it said copyright. A glaring oversight on my part.