Elio Crowdfunding

[Rickb]

I wish we had someone living close to tech-no-sport with a telescope,, or maybe we should hire some remote viewers... ( Link : will they see us coming?)

Excellent application for a micro-drone.

 

[Ty]

Some bits of this I've never quite understood. For instance, the engines -- EM knows how many they're going to build, and they aren't going to be subject to redesign at this point. So why not just crank 'em out? There must be a number of other parts -- gas tanks, wheel assemblies, body panels -- that they can be certain of. So doing them in batches, starting yesterday, would make sense to me. But I may not understand fully what's involved or how the process works. Can anyone, like you, Ty, shed some light?

I believe some people may be looking at this a little wrong. There are certain parts that are going to be off the shelf and just put on the Elio... The Steering wheel and Steering Column, for instance. Those are easy to get (if they haven't already purchased them). So, They will use their jigs and CAD models and build the frame for P5 and then see if everything else fits where they think it will. If it doesn't, they'll update their CAD drawing and fix P5... Then, they'll fab P6. Did that fix the issues? Yes? They can then start pumping out P7-30 (they could have any number of false starts but I'm keeping it at just the one). Now, as soon as they see that P6 is good, they'll start attaching all the body panels and such to make sure they fit right. If they don't, they'll change the body attach points to match the now finalized frame. Odds are, they'll either already fit or be really close.

What you'll see is this type of timeline:
f=frame, e=engine, t=transmission, b=body, I=interior, r=rework, c=complete (I'm skipping out on paint because it'll happen before panels are applied to the frame and it is most likely that P5 will be unpainted until it is assembled at which point they'll disassemble it in order to paint the panels.

Here's that Timeline:

P05----ffffffffffeeeeer---ffffffffffeeetttttb-----r---b----I----r---I--c
P06----------------------------------fffffffffeeettttttttttttttttbbbbbbI----c
P07------------------------------------------fffff--------------eeetttbbbbI----c
P08-----------------------------------------------fff------------------eet----bbI--c
P09--------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et-------bI-c
P10-----------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et--------bI-c
P11--------------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et---------bI-c
P12-----------------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et----------bI-c
P13--------------------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et-----------bI-c

This assumes that the same shop is making all the Prototypes and that they have areas for all the major components but only one area per section. For instance, they only have one frame jig so they can't be making two frames at the same time. Further, they CAN work on frames while another Elio is having it's body assembled.

This is notional, of course. My point is that the first one will take much longer than all subsequent ones. At the P4 stage in my example, everything is finalized and they are just becoming more efficient at assembly. I would think that once they hit P08, they'd start finalizing Shreveport's line more. They'll know how the frame needs to be assembled for example.

Anyway, If it were to take a day to make a frame for P08, and a day to assemble the suspension parts, a day to install the engine/tranny set up, a day to install painted body panels, a day to put in the interior... They'll be able to pump out one Elio per day... given just 5 work stations. (They won't be efficient by any stretch of the imagination... remember, Shreveport will be putting out one Elio every 54 seconds. So, this method is 533 TIMES slower... and still should be able to put out one a day. (painting the panels... ALL the panels, can occur as soon as the design is verified.)

I would wager that they'll be able to make more than one frame a day by the time they are on P07... The engine and transmission are easy to stab in. I've done it in less than an hour with the body in the way from a beam in a carport... surely professionals will be faster (plus, the Elio engine will be much lighter than that crappy Nova V-8!). It's harder to bolt on a transmission that is already mounted in the car versus putting the two in as a single unit. I just can't see any of these operations taking more than a day once the design is proven... In fact, I'd bet that I'd be able to do it with about 3 helpers. (after shown how to make the frame... never was much of a welder) I mean, really, the Elio is pretty simple and light enough that it's associated parts won't be hard to move around.

 

[Ty]

Why? I thought the max for their tier was $50 mil.

The max IS $50M... but that includes funds already taken in... especially the 501-C funds (I probably got that number wrong and I'm too lazy to look it up again)

But, the point is that the $50M ceiling is for total funds and not just for this particular fund raising effort.

 

[John Painter]

The max IS $50M... but that includes funds already taken in... especially the 501-C funds (I probably got that number wrong and I'm too lazy to look it up again)

But, the point is that the $50M ceiling is for total funds and not just for this particular fund raising effort.

I was of the impression that $50mil was the ceiling for non-accredited funds, your saying it actually includes accredited investors too. Correct?

 

[Johnny Acree]

The max IS $50M... but that includes funds already taken in... especially the 501-C funds (I probably got that number wrong and I'm too lazy to look it up again)

But, the point is that the $50M ceiling is for total funds and not just for this particular fund raising effort.

From Elio momentum V5 blog "The P5 is being developed using funds raised in a recent 506 (c) offering. The 506 (c) offering is made possible by the JOBS Act of 2012"

I read somewhere that the SEC, could combine the 506c and A+ offerings, or, could choose not to combine.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I believe some people may be looking at this a little wrong. There are certain parts that are going to be off the shelf and just put on the Elio... The Steering wheel and Steering Column, for instance. Those are easy to get (if they haven't already purchased them). So, They will use their jigs and CAD models and build the frame for P5 and then see if everything else fits where they think it will. If it doesn't, they'll update their CAD drawing and fix P5... Then, they'll fab P6. Did that fix the issues? Yes? They can then start pumping out P7-30 (they could have any number of false starts but I'm keeping it at just the one). Now, as soon as they see that P6 is good, they'll start attaching all the body panels and such to make sure they fit right. If they don't, they'll change the body attach points to match the now finalized frame. Odds are, they'll either already fit or be really close.

What you'll see is this type of timeline:
f=frame, e=engine, t=transmission, b=body, I=interior, r=rework, c=complete (I'm skipping out on paint because it'll happen before panels are applied to the frame and it is most likely that P5 will be unpainted until it is assembled at which point they'll disassemble it in order to paint the panels.

Here's that Timeline:

P05----ffffffffffeeeeer---ffffffffffeeetttttb-----r---b----I----r---I--c
P06----------------------------------fffffffffeeettttttttttttttttbbbbbbI----c
P07------------------------------------------fffff--------------eeetttbbbbI----c
P08-----------------------------------------------fff------------------eet----bbI--c
P09--------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et-------bI-c
P10-----------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et--------bI-c
P11--------------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et---------bI-c
P12-----------------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et----------bI-c
P13--------------------------------------------------------------fff--------------------et-----------bI-c

This assumes that the same shop is making all the Prototypes and that they have areas for all the major components but only one area per section. For instance, they only have one frame jig so they can't be making two frames at the same time. Further, they CAN work on frames while another Elio is having it's body assembled.

This is notational, of course. My point is that the first one will take much longer than all subsequent ones. At the P4 stage in my example, everything is finalized and they are just becoming more efficient at assembly. I would think that once they hit P08, they'd start finalizing Shreveport's line more. They'll know how the frame needs to be assembled for example.

Anyway, If it were to take a day to make a frame for P08, and a day to assemble the suspension parts, a day to install the engine/tranny set up, a day to install painted body panels, a day to put in the interior... They'll be able to pump out one Elio per day... given just 5 work stations. (They won't be efficient by any stretch of the imagination... remember, Shreveport will be putting out one Elio every 54 seconds. So, this method is 533 TIMES slower... and still should be able to put out one a day. (painting the panels... ALL the panels, can occur as soon as the design is verified.)

I would wager that they'll be able to make more than one frame a day by the time they are on P07... The engine and transmission are easy to stab in. I've done it in less than an hour with the body in the way from a beam in a carport... surely professionals will be faster (plus, the Elio engine will be much lighter than that crappy Nova V-8!). It's harder to bolt on a transmission that is already mounted in the car versus putting the two in as a single unit. I just can't see any of these operations taking more than a day once the design is proven... In fact, I'd bet that I'd be able to do it with about 3 helpers. (after shown how to make the frame... never was much of a welder) I mean, really, the Elio is pretty simple and light enough that it's associated parts won't be hard to move around.

This is really good stuff Ty, thanks!

 

[userexec]

LOL. I have a little 100W "My Heat" heater too! You want a life hack? If you have to park outside, and I do, put one of those in your vehicle and plug it in at night. It doesn't get hot enough to hurt anything if it should fall over but it'll keep frost off your windows! I have an F-350 and am going on 3 years without scraping frost! (including one year at Minot AFB, North Dakota! (My heater is actually the dark gray one)

Wow, that is a good idea. I could see it working out really well for that considering how relatively gentle the heat it puts out is compared to most heaters. And to think, I saw one at the thrift store a few weeks ago for $2 and passed because I already had one. Should have nabbed it. I park right outside my window and there's no walkway there, so an extension cord would work perfectly. Electricity is crazy cheap here, too.

 

[BADBOY]

that question has been repeatedly addressed in this and other threads .... the money goes for much more than building the cars .... things like paying suppliers of brand specific parts to help cover their expenses related to gearing up to produce the products, designing and building the jigs that will be used to build subsequent trikes/engines and in setting up the assembly line, safety crash testing, other testing

I thought the low cost of Elio was that most parts already exist and are on "shelves"? Gearing up is acceptable but a million per car?

 

[BADBOY]

That's actually not bad. Back in 1980 the typical pre-production prototype was 6million for big industry. Thank goodness things are more efficient now.

From $6 to 5 doesn't sound like "more efficient" to me for 35 years.

 

[Ty]

This is really good stuff Ty, thanks!

I was afraid it wouldn't be understandable or that I rambled too much. Thanks for the feedback!