Electric Elio?

[NSTG8R]

Here's the explanation for MPGe (Miles per Gallon Equivalent). It basically just normalizes to the equivalent amount of energy contained in a gallon of gasoline to make comparisons between different forms of energy sources easier.

Gotta love Wikipedia! Very explanatory, and even though I only read the main introduction and browsed the index I love the way, when discussing EV's and Hybrids, they (contributors) make it sound like it's free. I don't know about you folks but I have a meter mounted to the side of my house and an electric bill that, if not for 'budget billing', would vary wildly depending on if the electric heat was running, or the air conditioner was doing its best to keep my house cool in July. So unless you're off the grid with your own solar array or hydro-electric dam, charging your EV is going to cost you money...just like filling your tank with gas.

I say, check your electric bill to see what your electric company is charging you per kwh, determine what your EV charger draws (kwh), multiply by the number of hours it takes to charge your EV, and multiply that by what your electric companys charges per kwh, and you'll have a fairly accurate 'dollars per day' your EV cost VS gasoline. I'll never get an EV...interesting tech, but not my thing. I just find it hilarious when the 'true believers' [not necessarily on this forum] try to pass EVs off as non-polluting free transportation. Not trying to offend the EV Evangelists, but I'm sure I did.

 

[Sethodine]

Gotta love Wikipedia! Very explanatory, and even though I only read the main introduction and browsed the index I love the way, when discussing EV's and Hybrids, they (contributors) make it sound like it's free. I don't know about you folks but I have a meter mounted to the side of my house and an electric bill that, if not for 'budget billing', would vary wildly depending on if the electric heat was running, or the air conditioner was doing its best to keep my house cool in July. So unless you're off the grid with your own solar array or hydro-electric dam, charging your EV is going to cost you money...just like filling your tank with gas.

I say, check your electric bill to see what your electric company is charging you per kwh, determine what your EV charger draws (kwh), multiply by the number of hours it takes to charge your EV, and multiply that by what your electric companys charges per kwh, and you'll have a fairly accurate 'dollars per day' your EV cost VS gasoline. I'll never get an EV...interesting tech, but not my thing. I just find it hilarious when the 'true believers' [not necessarily on this forum] try to pass EVs off as non-polluting free transportation. Not trying to offend the EV Evangelists, but I'm sure I did.

Rough estimation (by comparing past and present bills) has shown our EV to cost between $25 and $35 a month to fuel. At current gas prices, that is about what the Elio will cost. But at $3-$4 per gallon, the EV will still only cost between $25 and $35 a month to fuel. At the very least, it means I am insulated from fluctuations in the Oil and Gas market.

Calculating EV fuel costs is a bit harder than you might think. Most of my electric bills are the same as last year, due to some new double-pane windows that are now offsetting the cost of the EV; but for a few months we had a decent comparison (the power company shows us average daily use and gives us the average daytime temperatures for the month, which helps compare months year-to-year).
My utility charges different rates for the first 700 kw/h per month, than it does for the rest of the month. Plus there are taxes and fees that don't change based on usage, which means technically we get more bang for our buck on months we use more (to a certain extent). In other areas, there are different rates for off-peak electricity use.

A better way to find a more accurate cost, is to use the EV's computer to track approximately how many Kw/h you are using on any given trip/day, write those down, then multiply that by the Kw/h rate from the power company. Pretty much like finding milage on a car.

 

[NSTG8R]

Rough estimation (by comparing past and present bills) has shown our EV to cost between $25 and $35 a month to fuel. At current gas prices, that is about what the Elio will cost. But at $3-$4 per gallon, the EV will still only cost between $25 and $35 a month to fuel. At the very least, it means I am insulated from fluctuations in the Oil and Gas market.

Calculating EV fuel costs is a bit harder than you might think. Most of my electric bills are the same as last year, due to some new double-pane windows that are now offsetting the cost of the EV; but for a few months we had a decent comparison (the power company shows us average daily use and gives us the average daytime temperatures for the month, which helps compare months year-to-year).
My utility charges different rates for the first 700 kw/h per month, than it does for the rest of the month. Plus there are taxes and fees that don't change based on usage, which means technically we get more bang for our buck on months we use more (to a certain extent). In other areas, there are different rates for off-peak electricity use.

A better way to find a more accurate cost, is to use the EV's computer to track approximately how many Kw/h you are using on any given trip/day, write those down, then multiply that by the Kw/h rate from the power company. Pretty much like finding milage on a car.

Nah...Too much math, I'll pass. But I do appreciate your enthusiasm for EVs.

I prefer having grease under my fingernails, and exhaust burns on my forearms.

 

[Sethodine]

Nah...Too much math, I'll pass. But I do appreciate your enthusiasm for EVs.

I prefer having grease under my fingernails, and exhaust burns on my forearms.

After several hundred dollars in repairs and (accidentally) lighting my wife's car on fire, I decided that I'd had enough of grease and burning. It just so happened that there was a Leaf available for the same price as an equivilant ICE that we were looking at, and after doing a little research we decided to risk the EV. And it has turned out pretty good so far

 

[NSTG8R]

After several hundred dollars in repairs and (accidentally) lighting my wife's car on fire, I decided that I'd had enough of grease and burning. It just so happened that there was a Leaf available for the same price as an equivilant ICE that we were looking at, and after doing a little research we decided to risk the EV. And it has turned out pretty good so far

LOL! I got 'schooled' on that when I was 17. Keep the fire extinguisher within arms reach and a second set of eyes [friend] when the welder is running.

 

[AriLea]

Well to tackle the problem of MPGe I have to say it's a bit muddled. To be scientific about it, yes you translate the energy quantities between the two.
Where it gets dicey is when they use the cost comparison, how much does it cost per mile vs the amount of gas that would cost. That can be stated as an MPGe equivalent, but most often it's stated as a cost per mile. And of course that's affected by the current cost of fuel or electricity as the case my be.

Even today it might cost $2.50 to charge up, and equivalent to $25 to gas up an equivalent ICE driven car. That would seem like 10x to get the MPGe. In reality, you wouldn't want to drain the batteries that deeply since that can shorten their life dramatically.

Anyway, what matters most the energy translation or the relative costs? For many people it's getting to be the relative Carbon-Cost.

 

[Sethodine]

Anyway, what matters most the energy translation or the relative costs? For many people it's getting to be the relative Carbon-Cost.

What matters most to me are actual costs As in, the cost for fuel and maintainence on the Leaf is much less than on the car it replaced. And once I have a house of my own to put PV panels on, the self-reliant part of me really likes the ability to harvest my own "fuel" from the Sun. But to be clear, I don't begrudge anybody who prefers to stick with their ICE car; they are well understood and have nationwide infrastructure backing them up.

 

[slinches]

Don't forget to include the opportunity cost in those calculations. If you're paying an up front premium (essentially always the case for new EVS right now), it's that initial cost delta plus the interest you could have gained by investing elsewhere.

 

[Sethodine]

Don't forget to include the opportunity cost in those calculations. If you're paying an up front premium (essentially always the case for new EVS right now), it's that initial cost delta plus the interest you could have gained by investing elsewhere.

For new EVs, yes. But used EVs (previously leased) are priced competative to ICE cars of equal age and mileage. Probably for the same reason that leasing is a more popular option than buying new: the majority of people do not trust EV technology yet. This lack of public trust equates to savings at the dealership

Not to mention the various State incentives. The program is expired now, but at the time I bought my Leaf I didn't have to pay Washington State sales tax on it (about $1,400!) so that was a bonus right there.

 

[Lil4X]

You may have noticed a decline in your electric bill recently - for the same reason your gasoline bill plunged over the past six months - most electric generation requires fossil fuels (mostly natural gas) which respond to the same market as gasoline and other motor fuels. They're not exactly in lockstep, but they're linked.

My wife wants a Plug-In Hybrid and is fascinated by the new Chrysler Pacifica (the replacement for the Town and Country minivan). With about a 40-mile claimed range on electrics alone, it probably won't consume much gasoline in her applications, but it's still capable of full-power operation over long distances with it's ICE. At the current price of oil vs. electricity, the PIH would be largely a break-even on fuel costs, but as gas prices recover to over $2.25/gal, it could produce considerable savings. Of course, by then, my commuter will be my Elio, so our savings would be even greater.