Electric Elio?

[Sethodine]

So I found the distributor of THIS EV kit on Alibaba last night. They use Kelly controllers, which are OK from what I've read. It seems that people tend to have better luck with them on Motorcycle conversions than on Car conversions, but if you are doing a dual-hub motor setup with dual controllers, then the load on each should be manageable. Unlike lots of vendors on Alibaba, this one provides a lot of clear and detailed information, and seems targeted toward US audiences who know what they're looking for.

 

[AriLea]

Certainly is interesting. You can look for comparables on the EVAlbum.. BTW I have almost a similar to this trike in my garage, cept the pettals have been removed, and the batteries are aft, not under.. http://www.evalbum.com/2091

 

[Thomas Malkin]

You can only jam power into a battery so fast. Assuming you have enough electric power available, the size of the battery is not really a limiting factor. That's why cell phone batteries take so long to charge, despite their tiny size. The newest Qualcomm Quick Charge 3.0 system will charge a phone battery to 80% in ~35 minutes. That's because there are physical limit to have fast you can charge a battery that has nothing to do with the size of the power source.

I have no doubt that future technology will be able to charge batteries faster. But saying that a small battery can be charged faster than a big battery, that's only true in certain circumstances. If you ignore the limitations of the power source, you get about the same charge times. (Also, there is plenty of evidence to show that these quick charges are damaging to the battery, resulting in shorter battery life.)

Surely. You'd not want to use a high-speed charge unless you really had to. There may come a time when you must. But thanks for the information.
Even a 15-20 minute Level 3 quickie charge with Tesla batteries is acceptable to me, tho.

Other thought: a hundred, two hundred pound Tesla battery won't cost a huge amount to replace. A thousand or two? I doubt it would reach three or four thousand. That's cheaper than some engine rebuilds. It depends on how much battery you'd want.

The bonus is that the prices, and performances, will keep dropping during the life of the e-Elio. It might be the last car you'd need to buy.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

Although if it were a pure electric, you would probably be getting over 100 MPGe. (I get about 108 MPGe in my Leaf, and it's a 3000 lb four door!)

It's all about the cross section presented to the direction of travel. The Elio just cuts through the air better than a wide box, so efficiency stats double. And three wheels create less drag than four, friction wise, so you get a bit more there. So I'd just wing it and say the eElio (E-lio?) would get at least 216 MPGe. 225? 230? 250?

 

[Sethodine]

It's all about the cross section presented to the direction of travel. The Elio just cuts through the air better than a wide box, so efficiency stats double. And three wheels create less drag than four, friction wise, so you get a bit more there. So I'd just wing it and say the eElio (E-lio?) would get at least 216 MPGe. 225? 230? 250?

Certainly, when it comes to traveling at highway speeds the Elio would be much more efficient. But I expect at city speeds the MPGe would be equivilant to any other vehicle of equal weight and battery capacity.

Other thought: a hundred, two hundred pound Tesla battery won't cost a huge amount to replace. A thousand or two? I doubt it would reach three or four thousand. That's cheaper than some engine rebuilds. It depends on how much battery you'd want.

As a frame of reference: the 1000 lbs battery pack in my Nissan Leaf will cost about $5500 to replace (according to Nissan, based on today's battery prices). It's possible battery technology will improve such that this is much cheaper in the future, and Nissan has already stated that the replacement will be of the latest technology, but even so, $5.5k is a chunk of change.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

Any of the Lithium battery types will be fine if you cool them properly and invest in a decent Battery Management System. The problem with hoverboards is when people discharge them too quickly, or over-charge them. Many of the manufacturers in China are using substandard charge controllers, which don't have temperature sensors to shut-down the charger. The result is Thermal Runaway, where increasing temperatures in the batteries cause a reaction that makes them generate even more heat. A vicious cycle of ever-increasing heat until the entire battery bursts.

That speaks to the other reason people use lead-acid (aside from the price); lead-acid batteries do not require a complicated Battery Management System (BMS). NiCad, NiMH, LiOn, LiPo and LiFePo4 all require an advanced BMS to control charging and discharging in a way that will protect the batteries from damage.

Technically, Lithium Ion have greater specific energy than Lithium Phosphate, but the better energy density of LiFePo4 means they can discharge (and recharge) faster and safer than LiOn.

Best thing about NiMH, besides the flat voltage output, is that that chemistry can't explode. I look forward to the tech being revisited someday, and improved. I don't like the explody battery problem.

 

[Sethodine]

Best thing about NiMH, besides the flat voltage output, is that that chemistry can't explode. I look forward to the tech being revisited someday, and improved. I don't like the explody battery problem.

True, they don't explode like Lithium-based battery chemistries. But NiMH have memory problems from uneven charge/discharge; an intelligent BMS can help account for this and thus extend the life of your batteries

 

[Thomas Malkin]

Certainly, when it comes to traveling at highway speeds the Elio would be much more efficient. But I expect at city speeds the MPGe would be equivilant to any other vehicle of equal weight and battery capacity.



As a frame of reference: the 1000 lbs battery pack in my Nissan Leaf will cost about $5500 to replace (according to Nissan, based on today's battery prices). It's possible battery technology will improve such that this is much cheaper in the future, and Nissan has already stated that the replacement will be of the latest technology, but even so, $5.5k is a chunk of change.

Certainly, when it comes to traveling at highway speeds the Elio would be much more efficient. But I expect at city speeds the MPGe would be equivilant to any other vehicle of equal weight and battery capacity.



As a frame of reference: the 1000 lbs battery pack in my Nissan Leaf will cost about $5500 to replace (according to Nissan, based on today's battery prices). It's possible battery technology will improve such that this is much cheaper in the future, and Nissan has already stated that the replacement will be of the latest technology, but even so, $5.5k is a chunk of change.

The Leaf has a huge battery, around 700 pounds; I scaled it down to fit an Elio. About two thousand dollars, I think, would be a good proportional estimate, top end. Maybe less.

 

[Rickb]

The Leaf has a huge battery, around 700 pounds; I scaled it down to fit an Elio. About two thousand dollars, I think, would be a good proportional estimate, top end. Maybe less.

As I recall, Arcimoto estimates the SRK's battery replacement cost at $2K, assuming a similar size to fit the Elio.

 

[Coss]

And besides the fact there's no infrastructure to support it (yet) what's wrong with using fuel cell?
There are a few car companies that are doing some serious work with fuel cells (Chevy for one).
Thomas mentioned in his entry about "I look forward to the tech being revisited someday" this is one alternative.

<snipped> It might be the last car you'd need to buy.

You were talking motor at the time, and I can see that.
But it's all the other parts that wear (suspension, interior, body, etc.) that you also have to consider in life span.