Electric Elio?

[BilgeRat]

I "found" Elio while I was researching alternatives to our current cars that would be less expensive to buy and run. As EV's are at this point in time, it didn't work for us, as it wouldn't be able to make a winter round trip between home and my inlaws. (That was the Leaf, btw, Sethodine.) I also seriously considered something like a Honda Accord converted to CNG with a compressor in the garage to load the tank overnight. The Honda would have been dual fuel, so you could drive on CNG until the tank was flat, and then switch to gasoline.

Quite simply, Elio fitted what I wanted the best at this point in time. I don't think that Elio (IF they are successful) will be able to ignore the EV route forever, Battery and capacitor technology will (and is!) improving, charging times will drop, prices will drop, range will extend drastically, and charging infrastructure will expand. The article simply takes a look at possible ways that this can come about, and how the oil industry is blowing this all off and is likely to be caught flat footed by it. Don't get me wrong, Elio is a great concept, and I'm definitely on board to buy one. If my inlaws lived half the distance away, a Leaf would have been viable as another car, but that's not the case. The article is simply a mind exercise, something to think about, not a reason to freak out...

 

[NSTG8R]

I "found" Elio while I was researching alternatives to our current cars that would be less expensive to buy and run. As EV's are at this point in time, it didn't work for us, as it wouldn't be able to make a winter round trip between home and my inlaws. (That was the Leaf, btw, Sethodine.) I also seriously considered something like a Honda Accord converted to CNG with a compressor in the garage to load the tank overnight. The Honda would have been dual fuel, so you could drive on CNG until the tank was flat, and then switch to gasoline.

Quite simply, Elio fitted what I wanted the best at this point in time. I don't think that Elio (IF they are successful) will be able to ignore the EV route forever, Battery and capacitor technology will (and is!) improving, charging times will drop, prices will drop, range will extend drastically, and charging infrastructure will expand. The article simply takes a look at possible ways that this can come about, and how the oil industry is blowing this all off and is likely to be caught flat footed by it. Don't get me wrong, Elio is a great concept, and I'm definitely on board to buy one. If my inlaws lived half the distance away, a Leaf would have been viable as another car, but that's not the case. The article is simply a mind exercise, something to think about, not a reason to freak out...

No freaking out here!

I came across the Elio completely by accident, just as you did. I have been checking out EV conversions for one of my 914's for quite a while. Screaming fast in the 1/4 mile, but I was put off by the range which made them impractical for anything but an expensive toy (which the wife thinks I have too many of now ). The conversions all used lead-acid type batteries which literally weigh a ton, but with the new lithium-ion batteries getting cheaper, it's still on "the list".

 

[Sethodine]

No freaking out here!

I came across the Elio completely by accident, just as you did. I have been checking out EV conversions for one of my 914's for quite a while. Screaming fast in the 1/4 mile, but I was put off by the range which made them impractical for anything but an expensive toy (which the wife thinks I have too many of now ). The conversions all used lead-acid type batteries which literally weigh a ton, but with the new lithium-ion batteries getting cheaper, it's still on "the list".

Lithium-ion is sooooo 2012. The new thing is Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4). They have an even greater energy density than Lithium ion.

 

[NSTG8R]

Lithium-ion is sooooo 2012. The new thing is Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4). They have an even greater energy density than Lithium ion.

Just waiting for the cost per kwh to jibe with what I'm willing to spend to convert.
The Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are new to me. Looks like I need to do some investigating. Wouldn't want my 914 to go all 'hoverboard' or '787' on me going down the road.

 

[Sethodine]

Just waiting for the cost per kwh to jibe with what I'm willing to spend to convert.
The Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are new to me. Looks like I need to do some investigating. Wouldn't want my 914 to go all 'hoverboard' or '787' on me going down the road.

Any of the Lithium battery types will be fine if you cool them properly and invest in a decent Battery Management System. The problem with hoverboards is when people discharge them too quickly, or over-charge them. Many of the manufacturers in China are using substandard charge controllers, which don't have temperature sensors to shut-down the charger. The result is Thermal Runaway, where increasing temperatures in the batteries cause a reaction that makes them generate even more heat. A vicious cycle of ever-increasing heat until the entire battery bursts.

That speaks to the other reason people use lead-acid (aside from the price); lead-acid batteries do not require a complicated Battery Management System (BMS). NiCad, NiMH, LiOn, LiPo and LiFePo4 all require an advanced BMS to control charging and discharging in a way that will protect the batteries from damage.

Technically, Lithium Ion have greater specific energy than Lithium Phosphate, but the better energy density of LiFePo4 means they can discharge (and recharge) faster and safer than LiOn.

 

[NSTG8R]

Any of the Lithium battery types will be fine if you cool them properly and invest in a decent Battery Management System. The problem with hoverboards is when people discharge them too quickly, or over-charge them. Many of the manufacturers in China are using substandard charge controllers, which don't have temperature sensors to shut-down the charger. The result is Thermal Runaway, where increasing temperatures in the batteries cause a reaction that makes them generate even more heat. A vicious cycle of ever-increasing heat until the entire battery bursts.

That speaks to the other reason people use lead-acid (aside from the price); lead-acid batteries do not require a complicated Battery Management System (BMS). NiCad, NiMH, LiOn, LiPo and LiFePo4 all require an advanced BMS to control charging and discharging in a way that will protect the batteries from damage.

Technically, Lithium Ion have greater specific energy than Lithium Phosphate, but the better energy density of LiFePo4 means they can discharge (and recharge) faster and safer than LiOn.

Thanks for the enlightenment! I do know that my recently purchased Bosch Drill/Driver powered by Lithium Ion batteries [tiny in comparison to my older NiCad cordless drills] blows everything else I've owned over the years straight out of the water.

 

[Marshall]

Would this be the place for discussing a possible Hybrid Elios or would it need a separate thread?

By the way, this is speculation for changes after the E series/P5 is PRODUCED in commercial quantities

 

[NSTG8R]

Would this be the place for discussing a possible Hybrid Elios or would it need a separate thread?

By the way, this is speculation for changes after the E series/P5 is PRODUCED in commercial quantities

I don't see why not. The subject has been brought up before over the last couple years, but this is the most recent thread and some of the newer members might find it easier to jump on this thread VS searching for the older "dead horses" that were beat on.

Go for it! New ideas are always good to hear.

 

[Rob Croson]

Could you pack in enough batteries to get decent range? If not, then what's the point? There's already a lot of companies out there making electric runabouts. (Or will be making them before EM could ever get one out the door.)

 

[Sethodine]

I'm not sure if there would be room inside the Elio to fit both the battery/electric motor and a gas engine/generator. I could see a couple possible solutions though.

• Install a hub-mounted electric motor on the rear tire, and batteries in place of the second seat. This would give you a limited electric range before needing to resort to the gas engine. The car would be driven by idle-ing in Neutral, using a seperate throttle for the electric motor. The battery would be constantly recharged via the car's existing 12v system.
• Same as above, except that the battery is not recharged from the engine. Instead, you would recharge the battery by shifting the gas engine into drive and using the regenerative braking ability of the rear electric motor to recharge the battery. This would result in decreased MPG, however.
• Install a complete electric front-wheel drive, with batteries under the hood and replacing the gas tank. Then tow a uni-wheel trailer with a small gas generator when you need extended range.