Doubts...to Buy Or Not To Buy...

[Debbie Bruce]

400 square feet, he said... 20 x 20 is 400 square feet. Technologists is much larger... It is possible he erred. It's fine if he did. I didn't do much name calling. He had his ways but I was always civil.

Wish I could help you but I was not there so all I can do is telll you what I was told. Right or wrong that's all the info I have. His focus point was it looked like a junk yard. Uncle M lost interest in Elio but for some reason I'm intrigued. Elio may be the topic of my thesis when I go for my grad degree

 

[pj rogers]

Ok, I have a suggestion to make for many of you. Go to paul elios presentation to Pontiac Michigan and read what he has to say in his presentation. A lot of good information about how he sees the automotive business, especially the cost verses retail pricing. I believe the elio is going to happen but time will tell. The real problem is the cost of the Elio after all is said and done. In 2010, the elio was $5995..in 4 years it has jumped to $6800, $800 more. EM admits to being $300 short which would make it $7100 now and who know what it will be in late 2015. EM is still advertising $6800 and has made no attempt to add plus options, destination and preparation fees. . The good people who are all in, in their mind, are thinking $6800 minus their $500 discount and their $1000 down payment...is $5300 for a elio are going to be very, very surprised when that number is closer to $8500 -$500 and then -$1000 which is $7000+ for a basic elio..plus their local fees. (est. $400). Those folks who put the $100 refundable and the $100 non refundable are going to also have to make the decision do I stay in or get out. Those folks are looking at $8350 plus the local fees.. If they bail, then EM may have real problem on their hands. If they order a automatic it could be $800 or so more.
Some will call it a typical "bait and switch" but the delays and normal cost increases have put EM in this situation. BTW, When the elio finally does make production those salespeople who are hired will be probably be trained by a 15 year car salesman and finance manager who is the national sale manager, named Jerome who knows every trick in the book on how to make money selling vehicles, after all, that is the bottom line, making EM money..isn't it.? Also, the category of autocyle will carry a different insurance cost, not a motorcycle and not a car, probably some where in between. None of this is meant to bad mouth EM, far from it, it is just to present the reality of what could happen when the final figures are released, I'm just trying to put it in perspective..!

 

[outsydthebox]

Ok, I have a suggestion to make for many of you. Go to paul elios presentation to Pontiac Michigan and read what he has to say in his presentation. A lot of good information about how he sees the automotive business, especially the cost verses retail pricing. I believe the elio is going to happen but time will tell. The real problem is the cost of the Elio after all is said and done. In 2010, the elio was $5995..in 4 years it has jumped to $6800, $800 more. EM admits to being $300 short which would make it $7100 now and who know what it will be in late 2015. EM is still advertising $6800 and has made no attempt to add plus options, destination and preparation fees. . The good people who are all in, in their mind, are thinking $6800 minus their $500 discount and their $1000 down payment...is $5300 for a elio are going to be very, very surprised when that number is closer to $8500 -$500 and then -$1000 which is $7000+ for a basic elio..plus their local fees. (est. $400). Those folks who put the $100 refundable and the $100 non refundable are going to also have to make the decision do I stay in or get out. Those folks are looking at $8350 plus the local fees.. If they bail, then EM may have real problem on their hands. If they order a automatic it could be $800 or so more.
Some will call it a typical "bait and switch" but the delays and normal cost increases have put EM in this situation. BTW, When the elio finally does make production those salespeople who are hired will be probably be trained by a 15 year car salesman and finance manager who is the national sale manager, named Jerome who knows every trick in the book on how to make money selling vehicles, after all, that is the bottom line, making EM money..isn't it.? Also, the category of autocyle will carry a different insurance cost, not a motorcycle and not a car, probably some where in between. None of this is meant to bad mouth EM, far from it, it is just to present the reality of what could happen when the final figures are released, I'm just trying to put it in perspective..!

You make some valid points. And I too, feel like the "first run" final price will increase a bit more. In 2010 we were still pretty deep in recession, and materials were also a bit cheaper, But I am ok with that. As I see it, I would be more concerned if he was willing to cut quality in order to stick to the original price. I would rather pay a few hundred more to get a vehicle that is "worth having". Many times in my life, I have gone for the lowest priced "widget" only to be very disappointed, very soon. Then I have to buy the "better widget" for even MORE, And been very satisfied for years and years. I also expect the MSRP to rise noticeably AFTER the first production year. Labor, insurance, materials, all go up... And so do GAS Prices. So, keeping it in perspective, 6 years ago I was ready to buy plans for the RQ Riley XR-3. Then spend $10K on materials and 500 to 600 hours of my TIME to build an 80mpg diesel reverse trike. How much money could YOU make in 500 hours? To me, 10-12K is still a bargain! That is how I CHOOSE to look at it.

 

[Snick]

I like your assessment, dunkybones. Although, I think a phone that had LTE data transfer rates and access to the internet in 1994 would have been a steal for $1200.

Yugos were junk and people snapped them up like crazy. This does everything the Yugo does, for less money, saves you money, and looks good doing it. It just has on less tire... maybe 2 less passengers... but still...

I don't think they are hitting the right demographic. I will not pretend to know what that is, but when they hit it, it will be like an 1850's gold rush. Maybe we need to start a grass-roots campaign for them. Get some giant life-size inflatable P5's and do some random sidewalk advocacy in city centers. Maybe one with the wacky-waving-inflatable-tube-man built into it.

Paul has always said his demographic is older American's that can't afford to update or fix their current cars. I never understood that. These people, while very deserving, aren't category leaders. They don't make market niches or product categories "work". They generally follow the market.

 

[zelio]

Paul has always said his demographic is older American's that can't afford to update or fix their current cars. I never understood that. These people, while very deserving, aren't category leaders. They don't make market niches or product categories "work". They generally follow the market.

Are you sure about that? Two or 3 weeks ago I went through our entire membership list and recorded ages. Those 47 and below = 130. Those 48 and above = 473. I'm sure the results have changed slightly since then because I make it a point to check age whenever I notice a new member. For a short time we were getting more 30-45 group but then the "seniors started joining in droves again. I suspect the results will be similar if I checked them again. If anything, I consider the Elio my niche personal transportation vehicle. I am 72 y/o and most of the members here are over 50. Do you still think we can't make a market niche? If not, it certainly isn't because we aren't trying. LOL :-) Z

 

[Ty]

Wish I could help you but I was not there so all I can do is telll you what I was told. Right or wrong that's all the info I have. His focus point was it looked like a junk yard. Uncle M lost interest in Elio but for some reason I'm intrigued. Elio may be the topic of my thesis when I go for my grad degree

Okay. Fair enough. Mine was titled "Discrete Event Simulation Model of the Ground Maintenance Operations Cycle of a Reusable Launch Vehicle"... Whew... I didn't pick the title as it was a funded research topic. Hey, they paid me really well to get my Graduate degree and then paid me to present it in Hawaii at the Western Decision Science Institute's annual conference. It was a pain. Maybe you'll have it easier.

 

[Snick]

Are you sure about that? Two or 3 weeks ago I went through our entire membership list and recorded ages. Those 47 and below = 130. Those 48 and above = 473. I'm sure the results have changed slightly since then because I make it a point to check age whenever I notice a new member. For a short time we were getting more 30-45 group but then the "seniors started joining in droves again. I suspect the results will be similar if I checked them again. If anything, I consider the Elio my niche personal transportation vehicle. I am 72 y/o and most of the members here are over 50. Do you still think we can't make a market niche? If not, it certainly isn't because we aren't trying. LOL Z

Hi Zelio,

No, I'm not sure. I think the people on here, of all ages are...to put it delicately,,, well, we're oddballs. We're the 'weird kids' that are all grownup and are willing to stand out in a totally unique 3 wheeled (most would say backwards!) "Car"/"bike"/"autocar--what's that?"

Let's face it, 3 wheels are smart. The engineering is sound. The format of 2 in front and one in back with tandem seating is so very FLUID and sensible, but, it's bucking people's perceptions of "normal". Most people don't know 'boo!' about cars, they buy based on what the magazines tell them to buy like "zero to sixty" times, as if that matters a whole heck of a lot when you're stuck in traffic 90% of the time. I'd rather publishers pushed the 35-70 acceleration times, which is FAR FAR more important for merging safely in traffic in...you know...the real world. But no, we get brainwashed.

At any rate, I guess I've rambled. All I was trying to say is that older people without much money are hardly trendsetters, in my opinion only.

You get what you pay for. This opinion was 100% free of charge

 

[pj rogers]

Good job Zelio, that is a very interesting observation. In OKC, I noticed that also, a lot of over 55 people looking to replace their two wheeler and go to a elio. Now lichtner thinks exactly the opposite, and EM will have to find a bank willing to buy the elio from EM and basically finance it for 3-4 years before it make any profit. Good luck with that. Now if your correct, the older folks can easily afford the higher cost a year and a half from now. (est) so that a/c auto and cruise elio at $10 grand is cheap to them.
I really thought the commuter crowd would just buy every elio made on the planet with gas $4-5 a gallon and still hope they do. The elio is perfect for those college kids also. I wonder if the P5 will have a little more room in the rear for those guys who want to take the elio on long over night trips, cause of course, the better half will be driving most of the time...bring a book guys.
I can't wait for the IAV motor and the 5 speed AMT reviews, should be ready in about a month with luck...!

 

[Rickb]

I don't think the price will increase simply due to mass production keeping costs lower and potential profits higher. Elio will keep their word on the 4 basic principles $6800, blah, blah, & blah. Also, my understanding of Elio's demographic........is anybody who needs affordable, reliable, low maintenance, high mpg, somewhat stylish, and FUNctional transportation...........whether young, middle aged, or an old geezer like me. I must admit I am surprised by the higher number of old geezer interest in the Elio. Perhaps Elio is a reminder of the by gone era in transportation with it's hot rod fenders and rear rumble seat.

 

[BlioKart]

Are you sure about that? Two or 3 weeks ago I went through our entire membership list and recorded ages. Those 47 and below = 130. Those 48 and above = 473. I'm sure the results have changed slightly since then because I make it a point to check age whenever I notice a new member. For a short time we were getting more 30-45 group but then the "seniors started joining in droves again. I suspect the results will be similar if I checked them again. If anything, I consider the Elio my niche personal transportation vehicle. I am 72 y/o and most of the members here are over 50. Do you still think we can't make a market niche? If not, it certainly isn't because we aren't trying. LOL Z

Older people wanting an Elio doesn't surprise me one bit. When I worked at a Toyota dealership 50 year olds+ bought the majority of Scion cars a brand intended for young people. I think once Elio is main stream all sectors of age will buy into the concept. As gas will not be getting cheaper and people sure as hell wont be making more money. A fuel efficient and affordable commuter car will be very popular.