Ditch The 3 Cylinder?

[Ty]

Like I have posted before, go to EBay and look up either Suzuki Swift or Geo Metro (both came with models of this 1 liter, 3 cylinder engine) Look at the total miles those cars have been driven! I have seen one on EBAY with over 375,000 miles ! Not bad for an engine that probable only weighs 150 pounds and some of which are over 30 years old. In the late 80's, I remember driving a Suzuki Swift in Eastern Europe. With 4 people sitting in that tiny car, I could effortlessly drive 75 mph for over 5000 miles and, even though being overloaded, still was able to manage around 47 mpg on the freeway. When driving alone at 60 mph, the car would get CRAZY mileage, around 55 mpg...

I think the latest Tech talk is where IAV answered that very query... those engines are no longer available so instead of creating all the molds for that one, they made Elio specific changes and designed those molds instead. Time wise, there should be almost no difference.

 

[Aviator]

I think the latest Tech talk is where IAV answered that very query... those engines are no longer available so instead of creating all the molds for that one, they made Elio specific changes and designed those molds instead. Time wise, there should be almost no difference.

I do like the idea of Elio basing their design on a proven engine. As with all equipment ever made there is always room for improvement. I would not care for the drivetrain if Elio either just took off the shelf parts or just designed them from the ground up.

I think it a smart move taking known good parts, finding the weakest points, and then improving on them. For example if a rear bearing is known to fail from oil starvation on a model at times but other times the same engine gets 275,000 miles with no problems why throw out the engine completely and start over? If an engines only problem is one bearing tends to go bad then just fix the oil problem. Maybe a larger oil pump, bigger oil passage to that bearing, whatever.

I see so often that modern car manufactures do a total redesign and deliver nothing but recalls and problems. Over the next 5 years they almost work out all the problems but then do a total redesign that creates nothing but more problems and the 5 year cycle starts over again, and again, and again.

Tip to auto manufactures everywhere. Get a good design, work on it, and perfect it. Then never change it.

 

[Jim H]

Like the VW bug was unchanged for many years

 

[Aviator]

Like the VW bug was unchanged for many years

Unchanged from 1968 to 1982.

 

[Ty]

The Model T... 19 years, I believe...

 

[outsydthebox]

I see so often that modern car manufactures do a total redesign and deliver nothing but recalls and problems. Over the next 5 years they almost work out all the problems but then do a total redesign that creates nothing but more problems and the 5 year cycle starts over again, and again, and again.

It is called "planned obsolescence" and it makes them a lot of money!

 

[Snick]

If they ditch the 3 cylinder, for whatever reason, please replace it with a 2 cylinder boxer or v-twin 650-850 cc air cooled motorcycle engine. Thanks.

 

[carzes]

The A/C clutch randomly kicking on and off brings up a good point on power needs. I now drive a car with plenty of power and a 5 speed. There is still a noticeable difference in the power to the wheels when accelerating. The air conditioner pump on my current car I would guess robs around 15hp from the engine when on. When cruising on the highway this is unnoticeable but when pulling out from a light I feel the difference.

I have owned a car that had a good feature with the A/C. Any time the accelerator petal was pushed over 50% the A/C automatically turned off until the gas petal was under 50% then it turned back on. Great feature but I have only seen it on my old V8 that didn't need it. All my other cars I manually turn off the ac before I know I will want the extra few horsepower then turn it back on later.

My current car with a 5 speed when pulling out from a stop if the compressor kicks in at the same time I feel dumb at times "like I just dumped the clutch and almost stalled the car." I do not understand why they are designed to slam on so fast and with out notice. I believe there is no wearable parts involved in the A/C clutch just a magnetic field that locks them together. Seems a controlled power to the clutch over a few seconds would smooth this out. My car actually hits so hard the belt chirps when turning on. I have installed a new belt and worried if I tension it any tighter that I will overload bearings and cause damage. So I live with the chirping.

On more problem I have found with ac. When driving a manual transmission I sometimes don't use the clutch at all when shifting. When upshifting I go to neutral and wait for the rpm's to drop then pop it into the next gear. Downshifting I do a rev match in neutral then take the lower gear. If the ac kicks in during this the expected rpm's drop and I have banged a few teeth in the gear box. Nothing that would hurt the gear box but still don't like the sound of it or the unsmooth lunge of missing 3 to 5 teeth and banging into gear.

I have a feeling this might end up being a bit different a/c system than we've been used to. Like high efficiency 'fridges and a/c units in the home, this one may use a much lower power compressor that runs for a much longer cycle time, so not so noticable a power leech to the engine. Dunno, just a thought.

 

[carzes]

If they ditch the 3 cylinder, for whatever reason, please replace it with a 2 cylinder boxer or v-twin 650-850 cc air cooled motorcycle engine. Thanks.

Air cooled engines are automatically OUT. It takes precise temperature control to deliver high mpg, and you just can't do it with air cooling. I like the two cyllinder idea though. I think there is a lot of potential there.

 

[Desertrat57]

With the technology that is out there (ie...balance shafts, flywheel, crank design, dual mass, etc..) I really don't see an issue concerning vibration. Now if you wanted some vibration, drop into the mid to late 70's in line 250's or better yet, the odd fire 231. Have fun explaining to the customer the rough idle issue that they experienced.