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johnsnownw

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Fear and greed. And an inability to do math and understand what numbers mean. You cannot reason a man out of something he was not reasoned into.

It's now come down to virtue-signalling. "I wear a mask to show that I'm more thoughtful, caring, and scientific than you." "You don't wear a mask because you want grandma to die, and you're going to have piles of corpses on your conscience." Whether Chicken Little's acorn, or Dumbo's feather, the lucky rabbit's foot, or hundreds of others, history is replete with stories of fears and the talismans to ward off danger.

The story of Nasrudin comes to mind. He was sprinkling salt all around his house, when a neighbor came up and asked what he was doing. "I'm warding off tigers!" "But there are no tigers within 500 miles of here." "See, it works great!"

It's like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon will mess on the board, knock the pieces over with its wings, and loudly proclaim that it won the game.

That was a lot of words to state that you just don't want to wear a mask.
 

Samalross

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Trouble with discussing statistics is the reading of them with your own biases. Some people are using deaths stats as a ratio of all cases. They will be happy with the lower numbers. Others use the death rates of completed outcomes. This is going to be a lot higher. In my opinion, the only real way to determine the death rate.
 

Elio Amazed

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“ Exactly. Even more impressive, the US death rate so far is exceptionally high at more than 12.64%.“


The US death rate, FOR THOSE Hospitalized, says absolutely nothing about the overall fatality rate. There is no disputing this. It may very well be more of a reflection on the quality of our medical care.
What? "FOR THOSE Hospitalized"? Where did you get that from? Nope. Those numbers are ALL confirmed US Covid-19 cases and ALL confirmed US Covid-19 deaths. Period. You're really trying here and again, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but making things up is not going to make that opinion correct in the cold light of the facts. Let me make this real easy for you.

covid.jpg
 
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Watashiwah

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You continue to cite numbers that mean absolutely nothing: I would say that it’s not worth ‘the paper it’s printed on,’ but the authors need not even invest that into their meaningless ‘outcomes.’

It is this simple, for probably the third time: deriving a death percentage from a population that has been ‘tested’ and ‘confirmed’ is absolutely ridiculous. Sure it is a statistic, but it is a statistic that not only means essentially nothing but has zero worth in making projections: it merely a tool for ‘useful idiots.’ Not that I think you are personally an ‘idiot.’ It is just an expression.

Again, the fatality percentage popular today hovers around .6 percent, that means 99.4 percent of people do not die from CV. (Incidentally, the total number of CV cases this study, in question, claims (923,624) is less than half the two million every other tally claims: right there the 10 percent is more than halved to 5 percent.) That’s not all what’s wrong with those numbers.

It is irresponsible and disingenuous to keep citing inferences that continue to misrepresent the severity: why don’t you just say ‘Of the people who get a Qtip jammed up their nostril, for whatever reasons (work requirements, free time to wait in lines, insurance paid, little or no copay, etc.) 12 percent of those that test positive will die!’ One could easily now determine that Q tips are the obvious cause.

I can say truthfully that I walk around naked all day! That’s right, I’m naked under my clothes but it just doesn’t mean anything. Everyone is naked under their clothes. One who wants to discredit me can go to others and declare ‘The Watash walks around in public naked all day’ and by my own criteria he’d be 100 percent right. Wouldn’t everyone agree that ‘under my clothes’ is a huge caveat? The fact that people are wondering if they have the CV, then motivated enough to get tested, and test ‘positive’ and then actually dying has absolutely no significance or meaning, unless of course testing is a cause, which I am definitely not proposing. 12.64 “percent of those tested positive” and those ‘cases with an outcome’ will die! This caveat has the same meaning and weight as “under my clothes.’ They both erase any merit from the main point and are just tools ‘for masters of the obvious.’ There remain millions untested and likely unknowingly ‘positive’ but symptom free as there are maybe equal numbers with symptoms too mild to even see a doctor or ‘white knuckle’ going to a test center. Where do all these people show up as ‘survivors’?

I’m not even going to ask what ‘cases which had an outcome’ in the ‘study’ you cite even means: I bet tho it’s another caveat or ‘qualifier’ that even further illustrates my point. Does it really mean ‘we already removed those positive but with no, or mild, symptoms’? Dying is certainly one big outcome: it is true that 100 percent of people that died, died from conditions that are inconsistent with life. Why don’t they just go another step and just say that?

All that study ‘says’ is ‘X number of people were motivated or concerned enough to test, of these 924,000 tested ‘positive’ (with some other qualifier necessary) and 115,200 or 12.64 of these people died. The only significant numbers are to divide the number dead 115,200 by X. I bet it is much less that one percent.
 
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Elio Amazed

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You continue to cite numbers that mean absolutely nothing: I would say that it’s not worth ‘the paper it’s printed on,’ but the authors need not even invest that into their meaningless ‘outcomes.’

It is this simple, for probably the third time: deriving a death percentage from a population that has been ‘tested’ and ‘confirmed’ is absolutely ridiculous. Sure it is a statistic, but it is a statistic that not only means essentially nothing but has zero worth in making projections: it merely a tool for ‘useful idiots.’ Not that I think you are personally an ‘idiot.’ It is just an expression.

Again, the fatality percentage popular today hovers around .06 percent, that means 99.94 percent of people do not die from CV. (Incidentally, the total number of CV cases this study, in question, claims (923,624) is less than half the two million every other tally claims: right there the 10 percent is more than halved to 5 percent.) That’s not all what’s wrong with those numbers.

It is irresponsible and disingenuous to keep citing inferences that continue to misrepresent the severity: why don’t you just say ‘Of the people who get a Qtip jammed up their nostril, for whatever reasons (work requirements, free time to wait in lines, insurance paid, little or no copay, etc.) 12 percent of those that test positive will die!’ One could easily now determine that Q tips are the obvious cause.

I can say truthfully that I walk around naked all day! That’s right, I’m naked under my clothes but it just doesn’t mean anything. Everyone is naked under their clothes. One who wants to discredit me can go to others and declare ‘The Watash walks around in public naked all day’ and by my own criteria he’d be 100 percent right. Wouldn’t everyone agree that ‘under my clothes’ is a huge caveat? The fact that people are wondering if they have the CV, then motivated enough to get tested, and test ‘positive’ and then actually dying has absolutely no significance or meaning, unless of course testing is a cause, which I am definitely not proposing. 12.64 “percent of those tested positive” and those ‘cases with an outcome’ will die! This caveat has the same meaning and weight as “under my clothes.’ They both erase any merit from the main point and are just tools ‘for masters of the obvious.’ There remain millions untested and likely unknowingly ‘positive’ but symptom free as there are maybe equal numbers with symptoms too mild to even see a doctor or ‘white knuckle’ going to a test center. Where do all these people show up as ‘survivors’?

I’m not even going to ask what ‘cases which had an outcome’ in the ‘study’ you cite even means: I bet tho it’s another caveat or ‘qualifier’ that even further illustrates my point. Does it really mean ‘we already removed those positive but with no, or mild, symptoms’? Dying is certainly one big outcome: it is true that 100 percent of people that died, died from conditions that are inconsistent with life. Why don’t they just go another step and just say that?

All that study ‘says’ is ‘X number of people were motivated or concerned enough to test, of these 924,000 tested ‘positive’ (with some other qualifier necessary) and 115,200 or 12.64 of these people died. The only significant numbers are to divide the number dead 115,200 by X. I bet it is much less that one percent.
If you'd have done your research well, you'd know that it's been proven that Covid-19 attacks almost every organ in the body as well as causing inflamed blood vessels and blood clots. Many of the people who died from Covid-19 were determined to have it postmortem. No-one was aware those people had it until after they died. It's almost a certainty that many more who died were never listed as confirmed cases because they died from other conditions that were exacerbated by having Covid-19. So it's a wash. So much for your theory of "there are 10x the amount of confirmed cases that haven't been reported, have recovered and have shown no symptoms out there". Even if that were true, it would put the ongoing US death rate at 1% instead of your absurd speculation of .06%. All there is supporting the garbage science that came up with the supposedly "popular" .06% are a few VERY questionable testing "studies" whose recruiting parameters where absurdly intentionally skewed toward people who actually suspected they may have the virus, although many of those, for whatever reason, denied ever having symptoms. Those testing "studies" were done and / or sponsored by people who were pushing the agenda of rushing to open the country back up. I went to a funeral yesterday of a friend that died at home after two days of being ill and a day of feeling better. They are only just now beginning to thoroughly test cases like this. The person's postmortem test came back negative. If it had come back positive, I would have still gone to the funeral if they had still allowed people outside of the family to attend. As it was, I was in the tiny minority of people wearing a mask of any kind at the funeral. We attendees were packed in like sardines. Appropriate to the timeline, new cases are now starting to spike again in states that have opened up. The same thing is happening across the globe. Even in, and in some places, especially in, tropical climates..Probably for the third time, believe what you want and rationalize it in the face of official facts however you want in order to make yourself feel better. By all means. Just stop going around calling people idiots in an underhanded passive-aggressive manor because they don't share in your chosen self-delusion.


It is irresponsible and disingenuous to keep citing inferences that continue to misrepresent the severity.
On that we can agree. So stop doing it.

Again, the fatality percentage popular today hovers around .06 percent, that means 99.94 percent of people do not die from CV. (Incidentally, the total number of CV cases this study, in question, claims (923,624) is less than half the two million every other tally claims: right there the 10 percent is more than halved to 5 percent.) That’s not all what’s wrong with those numbers.

It's no wonder you're confused. This may be an indication that your reading and comprehension skills have something to be desired. This is not a "study". These are the actual official statistics. 923,624 is NOT the "tally" of confirmed cases in the US. It is the number of resolved (a total of recoveries and deaths) cases in the US. I thought I'd made it easy for you, but I guess I was mistaken in my assumption. This is the page that screen shot and those statistic came from. Just as Flo is not a maid, this? Not a study. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
 
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Rickb

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If you'd have done your research well, you'd know that it's been proven that Covid-19 attacks almost every organ in the body as well as causing inflamed blood vessels and blood clots. Many of the people who died from Covid-19 were determined to have it postmortem and no-one was aware they had it until after they died. It's almost a certainty that many people who died are never listed as confirmed cases because they died from other conditions that were exacerbated by having Covid-19. So it's a wash. So much for your theory of "there are 10x the amount of confirmed cases that have recovered and have shown no symptoms out there". Though there's absolutely no proof of that speculation. All there is are a few VERY questionable testing "studies" whose recruiting parameters where absurdly intentionally skewed toward people who actually suspected they had the virus, although many of whom denied having symptoms. And those testing "studies" were done and / or sponsored by people who were pushing the agenda of rushing to open the country back up. Probably for the third time, believe what you want and rationalize it in the face of official facts however you want in order to make yourself feel better. By all means. Just stop going around calling people idiots in an underhanded passive-aggressive manor because they don't share in your absurd delusion.
Oddly, some of the highest ranking people who share that view are in control. My news source interviews with health officials indicate a sudden uptick in COVID. I wonder why (sarcasm)?
 
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dbacksfan81

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Latest on covid-19: ARIZONA HOSPITALS OVERWHELMED AS CORONAVIRUS CASES RISE!
This is just so disheartening and this shouldn't happen but it's clear that relaxing the guidelines isn't a wise move.

That's funny, the governor had a press conference today, and currently we have plenty of beds, ICU beds, ventilators and hospital staff. We have 1600 ICU beds plus 600 surge beds available and plenty of general use hospital beds.

https://ktar.com/story/3271187/offi...s-have-enough-capacity-for-covid-19-patients/
 
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Rickb

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That's funny, the governor had a press conference today, and currently we have plenty of beds, ICU beds, ventilators and hospital staff. We have 1600 ICU beds plus 600 surge beds available and plenty of general use hospital beds.

https://ktar.com/story/3271187/offi...s-have-enough-capacity-for-covid-19-patients/
Not that funny. You would be better informed by listening to the reports from the AZ Dept. of Health Services Officials and reports from the Statewide hospitals over Gov. Ducey who ended the Statewide shutdown in mid May.
 

dbacksfan81

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Not that funny. You would be better informed by listening to the reports from the AZ Dept. of Health Services Officials and reports from the Statewide hospitals over Gov. Ducey who ended the Statewide shutdown in mid May.

If I had meant it to be "HAHA" funny, I would have included funny emoji's. I realize sarcasm doesn't always translate properly.

Being a resident of the Phoenix area I have been following this since March through local news, the governor's office and the AZ State Health Dept. so I'm well aware of whats going on. I don't pay any attention to the network talking heads in NYC that read a paragraph and turn that into a whole segment saying that the state is out of control without all the correct information.

This is an email from all the hospitals here in the state that confirms the situation as it stands now.

“Recently there have been local and national media reports regarding the increase in confirmed positive COVID-19 cases in Arizona and how our state is managing the COVID-19 crisis. As representatives of the largest health systems representing 80% of care provided in this state, we would like to assure the public that we have available bed capacity and surge plans are in place to continue to serve the people of Arizona. We are well prepared to manage an increase in patient volume.

“In addition, the utilization of the surge line remains an effective tool in ensuring that patients are evenly distributed among hospitals in order to avoid capacity issues at any one facility. Our surge plans will also create additional capacity for patients if needed. Arizona’s network of medical care is strong, stable and prepared.

“We are continuing to work with Governor Ducey and state, local experts and other health care organizations to make sure our health systems continue to effectively care and meet the needs of our communities.

“This is an important opportunity for all Arizonans to remember to take the proper precautions to stay healthy and remain vigilant as we respond to this pandemic. By following the CDC guidelines we can reduce the spread of COVID-19 within our community:

If you are ill, stay home except to receive medical care
Wear a mask when you’re in public near others
Stay six feet away from others
Wash your hands frequently
Wipe down surfaces that may be infected
Avoid gatherings of 10 or more people


“We have taken every precaution to ensure the well-being of our patients and staff in our medical facilities. If you require medical attention, please do not delay seeking care for any medical conditions.”

https://www.12news.com/article/news...ne-11/75-7eed6b88-c0a7-40d0-bdf1-58dba544da7f


https://www.abc15.com/news/region-p...-coronavirus-update-as-cases-continue-to-rise
 
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