Comments From A Mechanical Engineer

[electroken]

This so called "engineer" must not be much of an engineer if he owns Harleys, they are some of the most (if not THE most) engineering challenged motorcycles made...

I've been riding "Jap crap" since 1977, and I like a good H-D bashing as much as the next guy, but I have to step in here as a motorcyclist and engineer (albeit an electrical one).

In 2006 I went on a 10-day ride with 9 other motorcycles. On that ride were 3 BMWs, 1 Suzuki, 1 Kawasaki (me), and 5 H-Ds of various models. Guess which bikes gave us the most trouble?

It was the BMWs. All 3 of them. Stupid stuff, too. The 5 H-Ds never missed a beat or did a single thing wrong the entire 2500 miles. The routine dismissal of H-D engineering and reliability is simply out of date. Their limitations come from playing to a particular audience, and no other company in the history of motor vehicles has been better at doing that.

 

[Jim H]

I've been riding "Jap crap" since 1977, and I like a good H-D bashing as much as the next guy, but I have to step in here as a motorcyclist and engineer (albeit an electrical one).

In 2006 I went on a 10-day ride with 9 other motorcycles. On that ride were 3 BMWs, 1 Suzuki, 1 Kawasaki (me), and 5 H-Ds of various models. Guess which bikes gave us the most trouble?

It was the BMWs. All 3 of them. Stupid stuff, too. The 5 H-Ds never missed a beat or did a single thing wrong the entire 2500 miles. The routine dismissal of H-D engineering and reliability is simply out of date. Their limitations come from playing to a particular audience, and no other company in the history of motor vehicles has been better at doing that.

As an old Kawasaki rider, mine was always reliable and never problematic. High tech isn't always the solution.

 

[grampi]

electroken

I wasn't talking about HDs reliability...they're as reliable as any make these days (at least for now anyway), I was talking about their antiquated engine designs...they keep building bigger and bigger engines, but what they fail to understand is you can't keep building bigger and more powerful engines without improving the cooling...more engine means more heat...at some point they are either going to have to stop making them bigger, or start designing liquid cooled engines (and I don't mean just liquid cooling the heads either, they need to liquid cool the entire engine), or reliability will suffer...

 

[HHH]

I keep going back to those who have pointed out that Elio Motors is building a commuter vehicle .... one that will be driven over regular roads doing regular traffic maneuvers .... most of us may never push the limits but there can be no doubt that some owners will choose to push the envelope and at that point we will begin to learn what its limitations are .... things may not show up as an issue when pushed hard may never be seen when used as designed

Jim

It is not likely we will have to wait for the "early faithful" to report what the limitations are by pushing the envelope. I fully expect the car enthusiast magazines will receive pre-production vehicles and do just that. They love to thrash cars about.

 

[JEBar]

It is not likely we will have to wait for the "early faithful" to report what the limitations are by pushing the envelope. I fully expect the car enthusiast magazines will receive pre-production vehicles and do just that. They love to thrash cars about.

good point .... I wonder at what point in the process Elio Motors will have vehicles available for such testing

Jim

 

[ross]

I think your friend is wrong. Think about how just about every car on the road today is configured. Front wheel drive with,for all intents and purposes a trailer axle behind, some with independent suspension but some with a simple beam axle with wheels and tires mounted on bearings on either end.
On a rear wheel drive car, one big problem was that in a turn the outside tire had to travel a larger radius than the inside tire. they solved this problem by incorporating spider gears in the differential to compensate
On a front wheel drive car the outside rear still has to travel a larger radius than the inside tire. Not a problem as the tires are independent of one another. With a single tire in the rear, even less of a problem.
For example, everyone has pushed a wheel barrow right? Ever pulled one? That is the configuration of an Elio. In your right hand you have the right front tire, in your left hand you have the left front tire. Every where you go that single rear tire is going to follow. Pretty stable, no need to lift any tires any more than all the front wheel drive cars on the road today.

 

[goofyone]

good point .... I wonder at what point in the process Elio Motors will have vehicles available for such testing

Jim

I would not be surprised at all to see the first such reviews fairly quickly after the P5/E0 is completed. Even though EM has said we won't see this vehicle much right away due to testing I am sure they will reward some of their supporters in the media with initial test drives of this pre-production prototype . This will be very important as it should, for the first time, be fairly close to the eventual production vehicle minus some refinement which will occur as everything is evaluated and tested over time.

Once EM has a bunch of E-series vehicles undergoing testing I expect to see more reviews periodically and once the X-series pre-production models roll out of the Shreveport plant ahead of production we should really start seeing some of the bigger auto industry names getting some extended time with these vehicles.

 

[JEBar]

I would not be surprised at all to see the first such reviews fairly quickly after the P5/E0 is completed. Even though EM has said we won't see this vehicle much right away due to testing I am sure they will reward some of their supporters in the media with initial test drives of this pre-production prototype . This will be very important as it should, for the first time, be fairly close to the eventual production vehicle minus some refinement which will occur as everything is evaluated and tested over time.

Once EM has a bunch of E-series vehicles undergoing testing I expect to see more reviews periodically and once the X-series pre-production models roll out of the Shreveport plant ahead of production we should really start seeing some of the bigger auto industry names getting some extended time with these vehicles.

hopefully we will see honest road test, not fluff advertising pieces

Jim

 

[Texconsin]

Your friend is wrong. Lifting a wheel is a good idea? Since when is reducing traction by one third a good idea? And driving the rear wheel would make it far more prone to dangerous oversteer in slick conditions. As an engineer, autocrosser, and road-racer, I think they picked the correct drive arrangement.

They had a longer video up before of the P3 doing a slalom, but you can still see it here in the intro montage and briefly in the video. Keep in mind this is also without the anti-sway bar the production model will have:

Maybe it will get 126 miles per gallon when one wheel is off the ground!

 

[JEBar]

Maybe it will get 126 miles per gallon when one wheel is off the ground!

good point, 1/3 less friction ..

Jim