Class Action Elio Lawsuit Has Over 800 Signatures...

[Made in USA]

Maybe something more drastic has happened with the server and they lost all the reservations? As they seem to constantly have computer problems they may not have the resources to verify. I'm sure they have backups. (Don't they?)

 

[Elio Amazed]

Maybe something more drastic has happened with the server and they lost all the reservations? As they seem to constantly have computer problems they may not have the resources to verify. I'm sure they have backups. (Don't they?)

I'm pretty confident that their entire database would fit on a thumb drive. Not only for the reservations, but for the entire nine years of company records. I bought a couple terabyte external portable hard drives about the size of a deck of cards a few years ago for less than a hundred bucks for both.

 

[Watashiwah]

Maybe something more drastic has happened with the server and they lost all the reservations? As they seem to constantly have computer problems they may not have the resources to verify. I'm sure they have backups. (Don't they?)

Wouldn’t surprise me, sure fits the trend. Of course it would mean that anyone with plausible documentation would be eligible for a refund. I bet they won’t ‘lose’ the ‘non refundable’ database!

 

[Samalross]

Wouldn’t surprise me, sure fits the trend. Of course it would mean that anyone with plausible documentation would be eligible for a refund. I bet they won’t ‘lose’ the ‘non refundable’ database!

Im sure that Connie took that information to Canada and it would not be worthwhile to extradite her

 

[RSchneider]

This is a petition to file a class action lawsuit against Elio Motors. They keep accepting reservations for cars but they have no problem delaying and pushing back the release date of the vehicle.

First thing is, they stopped taking reservations. So that's a moot point.

This petition should at the very least, garner enough support to initiate a class action lawsuit that allows customers to get their reservation cost back immediately or in the near future.

As of now, Elio has very little assets. The plant is leased, not an asset. The equipment still needed $3.9M to pay it off (from June 30, 2018). So I doubt Elio raised that money and paid it off. In the end, unless it's paid off, it's not an asset. All that is left are the prototypes and related parts and tooling. All of that is worthless or of very little value. Impossible to put a value on it. With this, not a single non refundable will get a penny back. So that's another moot point today.

Should the release date be pushed back yet another time, I suggest some sort of government interference to either shutdown or temporarily prevent their ability to collect funds from more unsuspecting buyers.

Again. the government cannot do something if a company is slow to deliver a product. The government does not have a rule that says, "You need this done in a week." Honestly, this petition was written 11 months after Elio was to go to production. It's been delayed a multitude of times since May 2015 and nothing has been done. It shows the priority of getting whatever this person wanted "the government" to do is not high on the list.

In the end, if they got to 1000 signatures today, a lawyer filed a class action suit tomorrow and the case was decided on Monday, that would mean, the company would be liquidated. Credit card refundable deposits would be refunded via the credit card companies. Whatever restricted cash Elio has goes to the rest of the refundables, the equipment goes back to the note holder on the equipment, lease is broken on the plant and the cars/parts/files/tooling goes up for auction. From there the lease holder, equipment note holder and the $7.5M Racer Trust fine gets what's left. That will empty the company to zero and no reservation holders get a penny.

With this, any lawyer will see the financial condition of the company initially and will want to be paid up front before progressing. They will not do this in hopes of getting a payday from a broke company. They get paid their fee before you all get your payout.

 

[RSchneider]

Then there's going after the CEO. This can be done but it really hard. This is why. There's nothing illegal to paying ESG Engineering to do work on the car. ESG did produce 4 working prototypes and 2 working E series. The design changed over time, thus ESG can prove they were doing something. Plus, we need to remember, Elio did pay Technosports, IAG and a slew of suppliers and other contractors to produce and engineer parts. We tend to forget those people but they were paid too. Plus, it's not illegal to make bad decisions in business like Elio did. Yes they messed up on the chassis and engine. That's nothing new with any company, very common with startups.

In the end, someone would have to prove that Paul knew all along that this could never be done and was just leading people on. With the points above, that's impossible to do. If he only had CGI cars and nothing else to show for it, then it would be easy. Since they have tangible products and were paying off bills the best they can, it shows that they they were doing something. Not pocketing it all. Just because the market was not as big as they thought, the interest was as big as they thought, the cost to develop a car was much more than they thought, the ATVM loan was a dud and investors didn't come running to them with open checkbooks, did not break any law.

Both of these situations are dead end streets. They only just result in going from 99% to 100% that you'll never get your Elio. Is it worth it to spend all that money just to put the final nail in the coffin all while Paul can go back and start another company? Because that's what's going to happen if this goes through. The dream of Paul going to jail will never happen. Just like the dream of getting your non refundable will never happen also.

 

[Watashiwah]

I’m in agreement pretty much with you, however, there are many ‘IF’s’ remaining that need to be reconciled. iF there is no money in the EM/ESG coffers, IF they aren’t really reimbursing the ‘refundables,’ IF it is truly impossible to ‘attach’ Paul and Hari (and IF other principals). This all might be easier and less messy if there was some transparency and info for the last 2 to 5 years, and some nurturing of ‘good will.’ I personally would like clarity and understanding on, what is my lone concern that given Hari’s ATVM application history that ‘If we get the ATVM loan we are good, AND, IF we don’t get the ATVM loan we still have other financing,’ wasn’t, or did not conveniently, or by design, become, a ‘shell game.’ I believe that not only did EM principals, but any reasonable person with a reasonable understanding of ICE ‘technology’ and a basic understanding of the ATVM loan program and history would have, or should have, known that the Elio vehicle was never in ATVM contention. Conveniently relying on the vague and open ended public ATVM criteria ‘falls short’ when the $ 140million dollar loan is essentially for a lighter, smaller, less powerful ICE (barely a two seater) vehicle: particularly one that can skirt safety standards and offers no traffic or parking benefit.

I want to confidently rule out, to the best of my abilities, that although it is likely that Paul began this endeavor with the best of intentions, his ‘Plan A’ didn’t morph into ‘’Plan B,’ or worse ‘Plan Ā’ where ‘they knew, or should have known, that the ATVM loan was off the table, and ultimately and conveniently made minimal effort to raise (and misspend?) earmarked project funding, but ultimately relying on the ATVM loan’s rejection as a convenient excuse (but still after burning thru a lot of investment cash).

Again, this scenario is all conjecture (by choice, Paul and Co. have been silent). I do not, personally, believe that Paul and Co. should benefit substantially: the salaries and ‘churn’ between Elio Motors and ESG Engineering (was Paul drawing another $ 250,000 / year from ESG?) is problematic, as are the Incorporation details and timing between EM and ESG, IMHO.

I expect this post to be short lived, but am only truly concerned with honesty, transparency, and hope that all parties, did ultimately make the best decisions for all involved.

I have submitted a FOIA request to the Department of Energy and am waiting for a response. I will try contacting them today. I hope information from their ATVM Office makes clear that Paul and Co. operated with ‘good faith’ and with the best of intentions for their stockholders, investors, and reservationists.

 

[Ty]

I’m in agreement pretty much with you, however, there are many ‘IF’s’ remaining that need to be reconciled. iF there is no money in the EM/ESG coffers, IF they aren’t really reimbursing the ‘refundables,’ IF it is truly impossible to ‘attach’ Paul and Hari (and IF other principals). This all might be easier and less messy if there was some transparency and info for the last 2 to 5 years, and some nurturing of ‘good will.’ I personally would like clarity and understanding on, what is my lone concern that given Hari’s ATVM application history that ‘If we get the ATVM loan we are good, AND, IF we don’t get the ATVM loan we still have other financing,’ wasn’t, or did not conveniently, or by design, become, a ‘shell game.’ I believe that not only did EM principals, but any reasonable person with a reasonable understanding of ICE ‘technology’ and a basic understanding of the ATVM loan program and history would have, or should have, known that the Elio vehicle was never in ATVM contention. Conveniently relying on the vague and open ended public ATVM criteria ‘falls short’ when the $ 140million dollar loan is essentially for a lighter, smaller, less powerful ICE (barely a two seater) vehicle: particularly one that can skirt safety standards and offers no traffic or parking benefit.

I want to confidently rule out, to the best of my abilities, that although it is likely that Paul began this endeavor with the best of intentions, his ‘Plan A’ didn’t morph into ‘’Plan B,’ or worse ‘Plan Ā’ where ‘they knew, or should have known, that the ATVM loan was off the table, and ultimately and conveniently made minimal effort to raise (and misspend?) earmarked project funding, but ultimately relying on the ATVM loan’s rejection as a convenient excuse (but still after burning thru a lot of investment cash).

Again, this scenario is all conjecture (by choice, Paul and Co. have been silent). I do not, personally, believe that Paul and Co. should benefit substantially: the salaries and ‘churn’ between Elio Motors and ESG Engineering (was Paul drawing another $ 250,000 / year from ESG?) is problematic, as are the Incorporation details and timing between EM and ESG, IMHO.

I expect this post to be short lived, but am only truly concerned with honesty, transparency, and hope that all parties, did ultimately make the best decisions for all involved.

I have submitted a FOIA request to the Department of Energy and am waiting for a response. I will try contacting them today. I hope information from their ATVM Office makes clear that Paul and Co. operated with ‘good faith’ and with the best of intentions for their stockholders, investors, and reservationists.

I didn't see anything wrong with this post. I, personally, don't think Paul did anything nefarious in his dealings. Though, I would like to see how they spent so much money and got, in my opinion, so little in return.

It seems that, except for body panel stamping, all the processes, parts, and engineering work wouldn't be all that too expensive.

 

[Samalross]

I didn't see anything wrong with this post. I, personally, don't think Paul did anything nefarious in his dealings. Though, I would like to see how they spent so much money and got, in my opinion, so little in return.

It seems that, except for body panel stamping, all the processes, parts, and engineering work wouldn't be all that too expensive.

Most of the money seems to be spent by borrowing money from the principles, immediately defaulting then paying high interest penalties. Don't think that they put much money into the actual car.

 

[Travelbuzz1]

I’m in agreement pretty much with you, however, there are many ‘IF’s’ remaining that need to be reconciled. iF there is no money in the EM/ESG coffers, IF they aren’t really reimbursing the ‘refundables,’ IF it is truly impossible to ‘attach’ Paul and Hari (and IF other principals). This all might be easier and less messy if there was some transparency and info for the last 2 to 5 years, and some nurturing of ‘good will.’ I personally would like clarity and understanding on, what is my lone concern that given Hari’s ATVM application history that ‘If we get the ATVM loan we are good, AND, IF we don’t get the ATVM loan we still have other financing,’ wasn’t, or did not conveniently, or by design, become, a ‘shell game.’ I believe that not only did EM principals, but any reasonable person with a reasonable understanding of ICE ‘technology’ and a basic understanding of the ATVM loan program and history would have, or should have, known that the Elio vehicle was never in ATVM contention. Conveniently relying on the vague and open ended public ATVM criteria ‘falls short’ when the $ 140million dollar loan is essentially for a lighter, smaller, less powerful ICE (barely a two seater) vehicle: particularly one that can skirt safety standards and offers no traffic or parking benefit.

I want to confidently rule out, to the best of my abilities, that although it is likely that Paul began this endeavor with the best of intentions, his ‘Plan A’ didn’t morph into ‘’Plan B,’ or worse ‘Plan Ā’ where ‘they knew, or should have known, that the ATVM loan was off the table, and ultimately and conveniently made minimal effort to raise (and misspend?) earmarked project funding, but ultimately relying on the ATVM loan’s rejection as a convenient excuse (but still after burning thru a lot of investment cash).

Again, this scenario is all conjecture (by choice, Paul and Co. have been silent). I do not, personally, believe that Paul and Co. should benefit substantially: the salaries and ‘churn’ between Elio Motors and ESG Engineering (was Paul drawing another $ 250,000 / year from ESG?) is problematic, as are the Incorporation details and timing between EM and ESG, IMHO.

I expect this post to be short lived, but am only truly concerned with honesty, transparency, and hope that all parties, did ultimately make the best decisions for all involved.

I have submitted a FOIA request to the Department of Energy and am waiting for a response. I will try contacting them today. I hope information from their ATVM Office makes clear that Paul and Co. operated with ‘good faith’ and with the best of intentions for their stockholders, investors, and reservationists.

I didn't see anything wrong with this post. I, personally, don't think Paul did anything nefarious in his dealings. Though, I would like to see how they spent so much money and got, in my opinion, so little in return.

It seems that, except for body panel stamping, all the processes, parts, and engineering work wouldn't be all that too expensive.

Most of the money seems to be spent by borrowing money from the principles, immediately defaulting then paying high interest penalties. Don't think that they put much money into the actual car.

Ty....Though, I would like to see how they spent so much money and got, in my opinion, so little in return.....

As far as I am concerned with the delay of TnT's refundable not being returned after six months, Elios delays in answering my questions about their employees leaving and Paul to make an appearance, stock prices in the toilet ..... Equals MISMANAGEMENT.