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China Is Building Too Many Electric Cars

TexasTesla

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Here’s a recent article with regards to the current Chinese EV market.

China Is Building Too Many Electric Cars

china-ev-factory-1920-898x505.jpg


China has 500 EV start-ups. The country can produce 20 million EVs a year.

The Chinese government is preventing new electric car companies from starting up. The news – reported this week in the South China Morning Post – reveals that China is facing a potential glut of EV production.

According to the Fitch rating agency, China’s established automakers and start-ups have the capacity to produce 20 million electric cars in 2020. That’s 10 times the government’s sales target of 2 million units this year.


The government’s restriction is aimed at new, smaller players – companies that are unable to produce at least 100,000 vehicles a year. These low-volume firms would be prevented from getting a manufacturing license.

china-ev-lite-1920.jpg

The Motor-Lite is produced by BAIC, which can make 300,000 EVs a year.

China is estimated to have about 500 EV start-ups. These companies are not the ones you’ve heard of – Byton, Nio or SF Motors – or the partnerships between major global car brands and large Chinese entities like BAIC, BYD, and Brilliant.

Last year, I visited the Beijing Motor Show where I encountered hundreds of obscure EV brands. I was able to drive about a dozen of these cars.

china-ev-red-1920.jpg

Zhidou, which makes the D2S, sold more than 72,000 EVs in 2017.

The Denza 500, produced in partnership with Daimler, was a quite decent all-electric SUV. But most of them were like the Motor-Lite two-passenger car and the Zhidou D2S, the type of glorified golf carts that were sold in the US before 2010. The Zhidou D2S – like the Fiat 500e, but smaller.

Leaving quality and capability (or the fear of imminent death) aside, it’s remarkable to consider the world’s largest car market as being oversupplied with electric cars. “The move to curb EV investment ticks all the right boxes as all signs are showing that the segment is getting overheated,” Qian Kang, a Zhejiang-based auto entrepreneur told the Morning Post.

The oversupply is occurring against the backdrop of Tesla breaking ground of its Shanghai plant this month. It’s expected to produce up to 500,000 cars per year eventually. In October 2018, Volkswagen began construction of its Shanghai plant that will produce up to 300,000 electric vehicles per year.

Overall retail car sales in China fell by 5.8 percent in 2018 to 22.3 million cars. That was the first annual drop since 1990. On the other hand, 1.26 million so-called new energy vehicles were sold in China last year, representing a 61.7 percent jump in sales. China’s shift from older polluting cars to new electric cars is expected to continue growing this year. However, Bloomberg forecast EV sales in China to reach 1.5 million units in 2019, a more modest rate of growth than previous years.
 

RSchneider

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The title of this thread should be, "Why can Chinese startups design, produce and sell cars much faster than we can in the US?"

I see this as a cautionary tale for people in North America, Japan and Europe. Just those three I mentioned struggle with startups trying to build something like a car or three wheeler. The only bright spot over the last 10 years has been Tesla. Like them or hate them but it is an American company, that designed and developed it in America and it's made in America. Other than them, nobody else has done it on that scale. FUV is 12 years old and still doesn't have production up and running. Elio is 10 years old and has built nothing. Solo started from the remnants of the failed Corbin Sparrow and they even threw in the towel and went to the Chinese just to get it finished and into production. Sondors used a California design studio, Italian prototyping shop and the plan is to use the Chinese to get it to production.

When you look at all of those Chinese EV's, they are not for the US market either but for their own. Geeley will end up selling EV's in the US as they already have a dealer, parts and warranty network set up in the US right now. Geeley opened up a US plant just a few months ago. More and more Chinese companies are becoming suppliers in the US with US made parts. They have already admitted that they will be building EV's here in the next few years. Only thing is, Geeley will slap a Volvo badge on it.
 

Rickb

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Arcimoto is following the Tesla Motors business model. Made in the USA , start small and grow to meet market demand with an affordable FUV Tesla Mini-Me EV commuter for the average guy masses. Tesla owners will be commuting to their factory jobs in their FUV’s. Arcimoto revealed the Gen8 SRK and received funding for the AMP only TWO YEARS years ago. Rapid progress to the production starting line after the decade of R&D was completed and the first round funding was secured. The FUV has gone through the validation process, certified, employs 75 Eugene, OR residents, has 3000+ preorders, recently announced the start of building FUVs for retail sales, and has very little debt. An affordable, electric, fun, utility, vehicle for the masses that is made in the USA.........visionary.

Note: EMV improved on the ahead of it’s time Corbin Sparrow and Kroll’s business model was start BIG (scaled production for world wide delivery) of his single seater personal SOLO commuter fast/efficiently by contracting with one of the largest motorcycle manufactures in China and perhaps build a few in Canada.......visionary.
 
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Elio Amazed

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The title of this thread should be, "Why can Chinese startups design, produce and sell cars much faster than we can in the US?"

I see this as a cautionary tale for people in North America, Japan and Europe. Just those three I mentioned struggle with startups trying to build something like a car or three wheeler. The only bright spot over the last 10 years has been Tesla. Like them or hate them but it is an American company, that designed and developed it in America and it's made in America. Other than them, nobody else has done it on that scale. FUV is 12 years old and still doesn't have production up and running. Elio is 10 years old and has built nothing. Solo started from the remnants of the failed Corbin Sparrow and they even threw in the towel and went to the Chinese just to get it finished and into production. Sondors used a California design studio, Italian prototyping shop and the plan is to use the Chinese to get it to production.

When you look at all of those Chinese EV's, they are not for the US market either but for their own. Geeley will end up selling EV's in the US as they already have a dealer, parts and warranty network set up in the US right now. Geeley opened up a US plant just a few months ago. More and more Chinese companies are becoming suppliers in the US with US made parts. They have already admitted that they will be building EV's here in the next few years. Only thing is, Geeley will slap a Volvo badge on it.
I concur what Rick said. Meccanica's plan was to manufacture in China from the get-go.
Everything seems to be going according to that plan.

Why, you ask? Because the Chinese don't jack around with years of financing, politics and regulation.
Plus they just seem to have better organizational skills than the west.

In other words, they seem to be able to get their sh*t together on all levels exponentially faster.
 
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3wheelin

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The title of this thread should be, "Why can Chinese startups design, produce and sell cars much faster than we can in the US?"

I see this as a cautionary tale for people in North America, Japan and Europe. Just those three I mentioned struggle with startups trying to build something like a car or three wheeler. The only bright spot over the last 10 years has been Tesla. Like them or hate them but it is an American company, that designed and developed it in America and it's made in America. Other than them, nobody else has done it on that scale. FUV is 12 years old and still doesn't have production up and running. Elio is 10 years old and has built nothing. Solo started from the remnants of the failed Corbin Sparrow and they even threw in the towel and went to the Chinese just to get it finished and into production. Sondors used a California design studio, Italian prototyping shop and the plan is to use the Chinese to get it to production.

When you look at all of those Chinese EV's, they are not for the US market either but for their own. Geeley will end up selling EV's in the US as they already have a dealer, parts and warranty network set up in the US right now. Geeley opened up a US plant just a few months ago. More and more Chinese companies are becoming suppliers in the US with US made parts. They have already admitted that they will be building EV's here in the next few years. Only thing is, Geeley will slap a Volvo badge on it.
Let me enlighten you as the answer's right in front of you. One, Tesla has the money to start and continue their operations compared to startups with limited funding. I don't have to spell it to you that Chinese companies also have the money and support of their gov't. to start something from the ground up and "finish" what they've started. 2nd, cheap labor. An average factory worker in China earns roughly 2,088 yuan a month or about $255.00 compared to US auto workers who gets paid $16.00-up an hour or roughly $3,840. a month!!! Now try to figure that out with an American startup company EM trying to create and sell a 7K ELIO- how in heck are they gonna make a profit then pay back what they owned? And if this is not enough reality, why do you think GM, FORD, etc. have factories in foreign countries? The title of this thread should really be "Chinese startups CAN design, produce and sell cars much faster than their US counterpart because of cheap labor and unlimited funds!" ;)
 
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W. WIllie

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There was an excellent segment on 60 Minutes tonight about EV in China. Also nio motors. Very True and informative.
I think this is just a teaser:
 
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Ty

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Let me enlighten you as the answer's right in front of you. One, Tesla has the money to start and continue their operations compared to startups with limited funding. I don't have to spell it to you that Chinese also have the money to start something from the ground up and "finish" what they've started. 2nd, cheap labor. An average factory worker in China earns roughly 2,088 yuan a month or about $255.00 compared to US auto workers who gets paid $16.00-up an hour or roughly $3,840. a month!!! Now try to figure that out with an American startup company EM trying to create and sell a 7K ELIO- how in heck are they gonna make a profit then pay back what they owned? And if this is not enough reality, why do you think GM, FORD, etc. have factories in foreign countries? The title of this thread should really be "Chinese startups CAN design, produce and sell cars much faster than their US counterpart because of cheap labor and unlimited funds!" ;)
Why does Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler build cars outside of the US?
Probably the same reason these guys build cars IN the United States:
Fiat, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Volkswagen, Volvo, BMW, Daimler, Hino,...
Why on earth would all these companies build in the US? More productivity of each worker? Tariffs? Transportation costs?
 
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