As I See It, Gloves Off...

[genebee]

Got to wonder if they are creating jigs for the frame as they build the prototypes. It would probably make a lot of sense.

I have to wonder if they will be using square (or rectangle) tubing for the p5- 30. I PE said in one interview that the frame would use a special high strength material. Which seems to me they would use preformed material to be used for their frame /cage, such as one piece frame rails made in stamping jigs.
Curious minds want to know

 

[Smitty901]

I have to wonder if they will be using square (or rectangle) tubing for the p5- 30. I PE said in one interview that the frame would use a special high strength material. Which seems to me they would use preformed material to be used for their frame /cage, such as one piece frame rails made in stamping jigs.
Curious minds want to know

Life has taught me that when companies say things like special high strength material, with out stating what it is. It really means we don't have a clue and we need some babble to at least put out there.
Even though I cleared out a parking space for my ELIO and really hope to have it someday . The more time that goes by the more I am coming to realize the only ELIO I will ever have in a dream one. I hope I am wrong .

 

[Ekh]

remember back when people were saying that seeing the progress made in building the P4 demonstrated that EM was on track .... a little while later that subsided and moved to if EM would just prove they had a functional engine ..... from there to show us they can raise funds .... from there produce the P5 .... my bet is it won't be long after after the P5, the cry will move to the P6 (etc), to crash testing, to hiring workers, to setting up the assembly line, and on and on .... the reality is, I doubt anyone on the planet wants to see them rolling off of the assembly line more than Paul and the folks who work for EM .... all of our worrying, weeping, and wailing won't make it happen a moment sooner .... in a recent post, the author used the analogy of kids in the back seat repeatedly yelling, "are we there yet" .... I think that analogy is a pretty good one

Well, of course. Baby birds are always crying "more, more, more" and "me, me, me." In this regards, we're all pretty much baby birds. The big birds are flapping their wings and hunting up worms just as hard as they can, and they're crying "cheap, cheap, cheap, we need money cause it's not cheap cheap cheap."

 

[WilliamH]

I have to wonder if they will be using square (or rectangle) tubing for the p5- 30. I PE said in one interview that the frame would use a special high strength material. Which seems to me they would use preformed material to be used for their frame /cage, such as one piece frame rails made in stamping jigs.
Curious minds want to know

As I recall, they said they used the special high strength steel in the roll/crash cage and a milder steel on crumple zones. As far as the cross section of the steel, John Painter re-posted this picture of one of the prototypes being built

Which makes it clear that they are using the most appropriate shape, size, and grade where it makes sense not to mention composite shapes like that in the "A" pillar.

 

[karl]

Seems we have some presidential candidate material here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-strength_low-alloy_steel

 

[genebee]

As I recall, they said they used the special high strength steel in the roll/crash cage and a milder steel on crumple zones. As far as the cross section of the steel, John Painter re-posted this picture of one of the prototypes being built

Which makes it clear that they are using the most appropriate shape, size, and grade where it makes sense not to mention composite shapes like that in the "A" pillar.

That method of building works for prototypes but is far too labor intensive for production. There are probably 100 individual pieces to that frame.
and not likely to pass crash testing.

 

[WilliamH]

Seems we have some presidential candidate material here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-strength_low-alloy_steel

Karl, As I recall Paul said they were using "Martensite" in the roll cage because of its strength. Thanks for the reference. I couldn't put my finger on "[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martensite']Martensite". The old "it was on the tip of my tongue".[/URL]

 

[WilliamH]

That method of building works for prototypes but is far too labor intensive for production. There are probably 100 individual pieces to that frame.
and not likely to pass crash testing.

Obviously. The sub assemblies would be built in jigs then assembled in other jigs. The various types of metal and their original shapes would still be the same to accomplish the same result.

 

[Jake]

Had a friend that built off road vehicles. Engines from small cars & motorcycles. Frames from junkyards and scrap. Body's of fiberglass.
Made about 30 - 40. Raced them in Baja & SoCal. Also several were daily drivers. One made out of a Ford Pinto was leading the Mint 500 when he crashed. All cost less than $1000.
Point is they were built in his garage with existing tech. Sure labor & time involved.
Many engine / transmission combo's for about a grand.
Build a mold and you can turn out a body in less than an hour. Even faster with injection molding. Went to a fishing boat factory. Wow.
With the robots at old GM plant I would bet a frame every 10 min is a slow day.
This can't be that difficult.
I'm thinking very poor planning and even worse management from the start. 6 years ago?

 

[John Painter]

As I recall, they said they used the special high strength steel in the roll/crash cage and a milder steel on crumple zones. As far as the cross section of the steel, John Painter re-posted this picture of one of the prototypes being built

Which makes it clear that they are using the most appropriate shape, size, and grade where it makes sense not to mention composite shapes like that in the "A" pillar.

Paul Elio mentioned at the New York show that the roll cage is made from martenstitic steel - clearly not an area they are saving money!