Ars Technica Covers The Atvm Loan Hoarding Catastrophe

[4matic]

I wonder if YoYo is going to apply for the ATVM loan

Now... that’s really funny!

 

[4matic]

I’m just thinking out loud...

It would be interesting to understated the nature of the actual language of how ATVM loan's are denied...

I doubt that Fed's would ever just issue a flat statement of "No Approval"...a statement like that could be misconstrued as a prediction of Elio's future viability...

I assume the ATVM application can stay open almost indefinitely... or until Elio can demonstrate they can meet all the requirements that the ATVM had required Elio to meet...possibly no time frame involved?

I assume...a conditional "No"...is probably a better thought about the ATVM loan...

So...I'm not so sure Elio will ever be given a absolute "No"

Possibly Elio withdrawing their ATVM application would be a sign of "No"...and an inability to meet ATVM requirements...

But...it appears the ATVM has been dormant for years...probably the loan program will just fadeaway...so none of my comments will have any relevance ...

 

[RSchneider]

If Elio can get past stage 2 then they might get it. There current financial situation will not allow them to pass that stage. They could wait indefinitely or until they shut the program down. Even if they do pass stage 2, the ATVM people might ask for a completed car to prove it meets the criteria for mileage. So, it's almost like they are at stage 0.75.

 

[Rob Croson]

The ATVM people changed the requirements to 65K fully-paid purchase orders in June 2016, as Elio expected their loan to sail through.

2016 was the kicker, as the ATVM board changed the rules to 65,000 verfied purchase orders rather than 65,000 reservations.

This is absolute garbage FUD!

65k reservations was NEVER an ATVM requirement.

The DoE NEVER demanded "verified purchase orders".

The DoE NEVER, NEVER, EVER demanded "fully-paid purchase orders"!!!!​

Stop spreading misinformation and FUD!​

EM was very explicit that the 65k reservation goal was an internal EM goal, that had nothing whatsoever to do with the ATVM loan requirement. There was concurrent timing in the release of several announcements that you have obviously conflated, and then embellished with your own headcanon.

1) The DoE releasing updated guidance on the ATVM loan program, adding specific requirements for an "ultra efficient vehicle", which did not previously exist. This change made it so that the Elio clearly qualified for the ATVM program.
2) The DoE added amplifying information in the loan program guidance stating in section II. 2) H. Additional Guidance on Adequate Future Sales: "...market studies and non-binding customer reservations to purchase vehicles will not be sufficient to establish adequate future sales." This is the origination of the lock-in commitment program for EM. This is the guidance that allows you to prove financial viability even if you have no sales to prove it. You prove it by binding commitment. The DoE implies, but never specifically states publicly, that an "all-in" reservation simply was not a firm commitment. This is actually supported by EM's own definition that an all-in reservation was NOT a commitment to sell or buy a car.
3) EM announcing the introduction of the "locked-in commitment", to fill the requirement of point #2 above.
4) EM stopping of reservations at 65k. this was explained as simply: That's enough reservations to fulfill a significant portion of our first year production.

We've covered this before. Provide a link to support your accusations, or stop spreading FUD.

For your reference, the ATVM loan program guidance document can be found here:
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/f...ce_for_Potential_ATVM_Applicants_June2016.pdf

 

[4matic]

​

Stop spreading misinformation and FUD!​

EM was very explicit that the 65k reservation goal was an internal EM goal, that had nothing whatsoever to do with the ATVM loan requirements....

The definition of FUD is "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt" LOL

 

[Rob Croson]

Coss probably wouldn't let me post my definition, or the words I'd really like to use. And I'M NOT going to go around screaming "fake news!"

 

[RSchneider]

Here's the issue. Many who put money down and hundreds of thousands that were waiting, assumed the 65k was some sort of gate that when Elio passed through, then good times were awaiting. Obviously Elio found this out because they had to address this after they blew past 65K reservations. I suspect that many lost interest and just went away because it pretty much did not mean the one thing they all wanted to hear, which was, "We start production today."

It's been a year since this milestone was met. As we all know, Elio cranked out a 2016 milestone blog but none for 2017 and I don't know why because they had several. Things like:
1. 65K SIL's met
2. Signed an agreement with Aisin
3. Two pop up shows
4. NASDAQ announcement
5. Promotion to OTCQB

 

[Rob Croson]

Here's the issue. Many who put money down and hundreds of thousands that were waiting, assumed the 65k was some sort of gate that when Elio passed through, then good times were awaiting. Obviously Elio found this out because they had to address this after they blew past 65K reservations. I suspect that many lost interest and just went away because it pretty much did not mean the one thing they all wanted to hear, which was, "We start production today."

Mostly, I agree with this. We all ass-u-med that when they hit 65k that something would happen. But that's really because we read more into that number than was intended. EM did have to come back and make that clarification that the 65k number wasn't really any kind of gating item, other than it meant they would stop actively seeking more reservatons, or something like that. The timing of the announcement of seeral related pieces of infomraiton was bound to get conflated, and could have been handled better.

At this point, I've stopped thinking that "something *has* to happen by such-and-such a date" or "they will make an announcement after such-an-such happens". EM will make whatever announcement they want to make, whenever they want to make it. And none of our speculation means squat.

 

[Elio Amazed]

We all ass-u-med that when they hit 65k that something would happen.

Not me.

 

[Samalross]

Here's the issue. Many who put money down and hundreds of thousands that were waiting, assumed the 65k was some sort of gate that when Elio passed through, then good times were awaiting. Obviously Elio found this out because they had to address this after they blew past 65K reservations. I suspect that many lost interest and just went away because it pretty much did not mean the one thing they all wanted to hear, which was, "We start production today."

It's been a year since this milestone was met. As we all know, Elio cranked out a 2016 milestone blog but none for 2017 and I don't know why because they had several. Things like:
1. 65K SIL's met
2. Signed an agreement with Aisin
3. Two pop up shows
4. NASDAQ announcement
5. Promotion to OTCQB

Elio was OTCQX, going to OTCQB was a demotion. Nasdaq was killed before year end by not filing 3rd Q SEC and stock fell below $5.00