Arcimoto

[Rickb]

The time is now for an affordable FUNctional enclosed three wheel commuter EV. I'm old and can't wait. Go Arcimoto SRK and ElectraMeccanica Solo.

 

[slinches]

Rickb, again, I wish them all the luck in the world. I just don't see the advantage to EV that can justify the cost difference at this point. What makes you think the concept is ready for the mass market? Is there something I'm missing or are you just willing to be an early adopter? If it's the latter, thanks for helping improve the chances of all of these companies. If the former, can you explain where you think that added value comes from? Every way I try to calculate it, the up front investment isn't going to be recovered in the life of the vehicle without some substantial increases in gasoline prices (and without matching increases in electric power costs).

 

[Rickb]

Rickb, again, I wish them all the luck in the world. I just don't see the advantage to EV that can justify the cost difference at this point. What makes you think the concept is ready for the mass market? Is there something I'm missing or are you just willing to be an early adopter? If it's the latter, thanks for helping improve the chances of all of these companies. If the former, can you explain where you think that added value comes from? Every way I try to calculate it, the up front investment isn't going to be recovered in the life of the vehicle without some substantial increases in gasoline prices (and without matching increases in electric power costs).

I feel it's as ready for the the mass three wheeler 2 seater commuter market as the Elio. I like the idea of the quiet instant torque performance of an EV providing it meets my needs and range requirements as an everyday electric.
Yes, I am willing to be an early adopter of whichever under $15K trike makes it to market first: the Elio, the Arcimoto, or the ElectraMeccanica Solo (which may be my preference) only after a test drive.

It has nothing to do with value added economics, but only my preference in terms of what motorcycle I prefer to drive. Is there value added to a vehicle with an upgrade to a higher performance engine? I don't think so. It's rather an individual driver preference and their need for speed.

 

[Elio Amazed]

"Sorry that thing screams I'm a Soy Latte Skim Milk drinking Vegetarian eating White Hipster all over it."

Please. Hemp milk mochas only.

In all seriousness, we at Arcimoto have nothing but respect for the effort Elio and others are undertaking to redefine the unreasonable patterns of today's transportation paradigm. We think that both the SRK and the Elio will find enthusiastic customers and significant market penetration. Which solution is right for you will depend on your vehicle usage patterns and needs. Generation 8 will actually be a further differentiation within this broad category, and we look forward to sharing it with everyone who hungers for a simple, reasonable and awesome way of getting around. Stay tuned ;-).

Hemp mochas...

...Mmmmmm.

Go get 'em Mark.
Here's to the disruption!

 

[slinches]

Ah, I understand. It just seems like this market segment is driven primarily by the economic value, so I would think performance and cool-factor would tend to lose in a trade-off vs cost.

Although, to be fair, the Fiat 500L seems to be fairly popular and I would dismiss that as it's positioned as one of the largest small economy cars. Why not buy a Mazda3 hatchback for a couple thousand less and get similar interior space and better performance and fuel economy?

 

[Ty]

Economics might not come into play for all... It would be more expensive for me to drive a Tesla than an Elio daily to work because electricity here is so expensive and gas is so cheap (for now, I get it). But, I'd gladly trade that slight difference for the cool factor of driving a Tesla!


The math:
Tesla - 265 mile range takes 85 KwH. $0.1137 per KwH = $9.66 per 265 miles or $0.036 per mile

Elio - 672 mile range takes 8 gallons @ $2.19 per Gal = $17.52 per 672 miles or $0.026 per mile.

European type of mileage is Tesla = $3.60/100 miles, Elio = $2.60/100miles

 

[Rickb]

Ah, I understand. It just seems like this market segment is driven primarily by the economic value, so I would think performance and cool-factor would tend to lose in a trade-off vs cost.

Although, to be fair, the Fiat 500L seems to be fairly popular and I would dismiss that as it's positioned as one of the largest small economy cars. Why not buy a Mazda3 hatchback for a couple thousand less and get similar interior space and better performance and fuel economy?

My opinion is that the Elio market segment is driven by the $6800 base price and most will opt for the AutoTrans. Many Elio fans are considering a full range of options to include a $2K Skyzmatic that will push the Elio over $10K.
Those are value added options to the individual buyer. A comparable EV commuter will no doubt be a value with a $15K base price for those interested in EVs.

I can't answer your question about why not a Mazda over a Fiat other than Individual buyer's prefer specific vehicle brands based on vehicle design, performance, quality of build, warranties, and reputation for vehicle and customer service. Most of us have placed reservation deposits many non-refundable on a vehicle concept without seeing the final product and or taking a test drive. I find that interesting.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Eventually, I think the range issue will go away for the most part for commuter electric vehicles. Batteries are getting better rapidly and the cost is dropping. The problem that I see is that battery cost/performance increases are more applicable to larger packs, so smaller vehicles that are space and weight constrained will still be relatively expensive for quite a while. And cost is what, I think, will relegate compact electric drive vehicles like the Arcimoto to a niche market for the next 3-7 years. Both it and the Elio seem to target a similar need, but the ~$5000 higher base price of the Arcimoto would pay for over 100k miles worth of gas for the Elio. It's for this reason that I just don't see electric making sense right now. When gas prices are much higher (>~$6/gal national average), which I don't doubt that I'll see that in my lifetime, small electric vehicles will likely be the best way to go. It's just that they're a bit ahead of their time, for now.

Of course, none of that should discourage investment in the technology. The vehicle I buy in 7-15 years to replace my Elio will likely be electric and the same is probably true for a large section of the market.

well defined, well stated I agree with your post

 

[JEBar]

My opinion is that the Elio market segment is driven by the $6800 base price and most will opt for the AutoTrans. Many Elio fans are considering a full range of options to include a $2K Skyzmatic that will push the Elio over $10K.
Those are value added options to the individual buyer. A comparable EV commuter will no doubt be a value with a $15K base price for those interested in EVs..

agree .... but do believe that the high MPG is also a prime motivator for many .

 

[Mark Frohnmayer]

Of course, none of that should discourage investment in the technology. The vehicle I buy in 7-15 years to replace my Elio will likely be electric and the same is probably true for a large section of the market.

If you add in the cost of the next vehicle you buy (minus the cost of replacing the battery pack on an EV you buy now), then the cost case for an affordable EV looks quite good.