Arcimoto

[Rickb]

Arcimoto engineers/designers have made some dramatic changes in the roll cage specs as indicated by track testing generations 1-7 in getting to the final generation 8 specs. Hopefully the final. I think EM will do the same with the E 6-25 Builds.

 

[AriLea]

Personally, I think these changes are more indicative of where Elio has been and not where they are going. Except for the truncated aeroform profile. Elio went with more of a tapering rear roof line. Sitting taller, it's harder to use a ramping roofline in back.

The gen 6 image above accommodated a more robust drive system and Elio had their engine already narrowed down to current size spec pretty close to P1.

Of course Acrimoto had more of a glorified golf-cart in the beginning, and now it's more street-able. At one point they were trying to sell off their P1 for additional cash. They seem to have found some form of R&D funding to get to here.

IMHO, The only changes Elio is likely to make will only accommodate any pitfalls found in crash testing. And at this point it's likely to only be some re-thickening or minor re-profiling of frame tubing.

I have no idea how their simulation testing programs differed, but Elio's was extensive.

 

[Rickb]

Arcimoto has done simulation testing along with track tested 4, 5, 6, and 7 generation builds . Testing results lead to necessary modified engineering specs based on real time performance/handling. Elio's testing to date has been essentially simulation. I am eager to see results of actual performance testing of the finalized P5 specs married to the IAV engine.

I hope to test drive both, pick a clear winner, and finally write the check. The Electra Meccanica Solo may beat them both to market.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Targets are claims of 12 grand and a 120-mile range.
Is that both goals together like it was intended to look on thier website?
Or is the 120 mile range an anticipated expensive upgrade?
Why drop the full enclosure and climate control on the new base model?
IMO, that's what most people want.

We may be seeing the "We've been left alone with these leggos too long" reality drift at work here.

Since that's what (I think) most people want, I'm betting that someone will eventually build it.
If these guys are still playing money games with cheesy add-on panels and "optional" ranges when that happens...

I thnk their enclosed vehicles/prototypes that could (for extra money) go 120 miles on a charge are awesome.
I want one, but not if I have to pay thousands over the base price to get the real deal.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... crumple zones and harnesses, yes, but airbags aren't even going to be an option as yet.

What did I see lately...

"It's not that we shot ourselves in the foot.
It's how quickly we reloaded and fired again."

 

[Elio Amazed]

Disregarding the open-air, expensive, specialty entries...
I have to say that lately I've begun to realize...
Just how HUGE of an impact will be made...
If any of these economy autocycles do make it to production:

Anywhere near their target price;
Anywhere near their target mpg or range;
Well made, comfortable, safe and durable;

To say it's going to be BIG doesn't even begin...

If the first one to make it opens the floodgates for several more...
Contrary to popular opinion, It's going to hurt the existing auto industry.
That's a whole lot of new 4-wheelers that will remain on lots over the next few years.

If I were a top auto mfg, I'd be watching all of this very carefully.
Ultimately it was the existing auto mfgs that stopped Tucker.
We can only hope the powers that be don't muster before the lines roll.

 

[Rickb]

Top auto manufactures currently have or have had three wheeler concepts on the table. It wouldn't take long to move one into their production schedule should the market demand it. It's a totally different class of vehicle adding to a model lineup not compete with it. Enclosed affordable three wheelers may be competition to the motorcycle industry and/or the used car market.

I don't think politically anybody can or would even attempt to actively prevent three wheeler commuters from happening.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Top auto manufactures currently have or have had three wheeler concepts on the table. It wouldn't take long to move one into their production schedule should the market demand it. It's a totally different class of vehicle adding to a model lineup not compete with it. Enclosed affordable three wheelers may be competition to the motorcycle industry and/or the used car market.

I don't think politically anybody can or would even attempt to actively prevent three wheeler commuters from happening.

I disagree.

I think a tremendous amount of money that would otherwise ultimately go to the big dogs...
For their mid-to-low value lines... will end up in EM's (and the other start-ups') coffers. I'm talking a whole lot.

That money is not going to appear in thin air like magic.
The money's not going to be an "and" or an "add-on" to what already comprises the market's cash flow.
It will come out of what otherwise would have ultimately been spent entirely on the existing industry.
Like it or not, It's got to come from some part of what would have been the existing marketplace.
The people can't spend what doesn't already exist (unlike congress).

Not only that, but (we say it all the time) "people will choose an Elio over a used car" and... that will cause the bottom to drop out of the used car market. What happens then? You'll be able to buy a creampuff for pennies on the dollar. Why would anyone buy a lower end new model when they can get a late-model low-mileage used gem for very little money? Think Dominos Rick, Dominos.

I think it'll be so big of a chunk that the big guys will miss it and miss it badly.
I think that there's little chance that they don't already realize that.
They're certainly not going to complain about it.
They've always done a good job at maintaining deniability.
They've a track record of proving they're ruthless, not stupid.
Another one of our by-lines is that EM is going to change the industry.
Do you think the industry wants to be changed?

Consider that we're always braggin up the fact that...
EM has already taken far more reservations for cars than many of the mfgs produce in a year.

No matter how you want to think about it, and no matter what propaganda EM pushes, EM WILL most definately compete, as in reducing the amount spent on the established mfg's products one way or another.

It's going to take a lot of money out of the current free flow. And that's just EM.
What about those who follow them through the hole in the rampart?

That's one of the meanings of the word "disruptive" EM and other start-ups are always talking about.

 

[Mark Frohnmayer]

"Sorry that thing screams I'm a Soy Latte Skim Milk drinking Vegetarian eating White Hipster all over it."

Please. Hemp milk mochas only.

In all seriousness, we at Arcimoto have nothing but respect for the effort Elio and others are undertaking to redefine the unreasonable patterns of today's transportation paradigm. We think that both the SRK and the Elio will find enthusiastic customers and significant market penetration. Which solution is right for you will depend on your vehicle usage patterns and needs. Generation 8 will actually be a further differentiation within this broad category, and we look forward to sharing it with everyone who hungers for a simple, reasonable and awesome way of getting around. Stay tuned ;-).

 

[Rickb]

"Sorry that thing screams I'm a Soy Latte Skim Milk drinking Vegetarian eating White Hipster all over it."

Please. Hemp milk mochas only.

In all seriousness, we at Arcimoto have nothing but respect for the effort Elio and others are undertaking to redefine the unreasonable patterns of today's transportation paradigm. We think that both the SRK and the Elio will find enthusiastic customers and significant market penetration. Which solution is right for you will depend on your vehicle usage patterns and needs. Generation 8 will actually be a further differentiation within this broad category, and we look forward to sharing it with everyone who hungers for a simple, reasonable and awesome way of getting around. Stay tuned ;-).

Welcome Mark! Can you drink hemp milk mochas and drive? I agree there is a significant market for both vehicles along with the Solo when they finally get to market..............going on 8 long years of following the concepts. Looking forward to the Generation 8 unveil. I watch your progress and appreciate your comments on the Arcimoto FaceBook Page.

Range seems to be the primary concern of electric three wheeler commuters on this forum. I think the 40 mile battery pack would meet the needs of 80% of the commuter market. I believe you will offer 80 and 120 mile options. I hope to test the theory soon.

Now if we could only get Paul Elio to chime in we could have some serious new member conversation.

 

[Coss]

"Sorry that thing screams I'm a Soy Latte Skim Milk drinking Vegetarian eating White Hipster all over it."

Please. Hemp milk mochas only.

In all seriousness, we at Arcimoto have nothing but respect for the effort Elio and others are undertaking to redefine the unreasonable patterns of today's transportation paradigm. We think that both the SRK and the Elio will find enthusiastic customers and significant market penetration. Which solution is right for you will depend on your vehicle usage patterns and needs. Generation 8 will actually be a further differentiation within this broad category, and we look forward to sharing it with everyone who hungers for a simple, reasonable and awesome way of getting around. Stay tuned ;-).

Hello Mark and welcome to the Elio Owners Forum.
You seem to know a lot about both vehicles so I'll skip the normal intro that I do.

And what is your role at Arcimoto so we'll all know?
You did mention "....... we at Arcimoto ........ " just wondering how involved you are there.