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Arcimoto

RSchneider

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Not full doors, but rather an FUV Owner designed and installed enclosure for the upper half door opening of his personal FUV. A few owners have contacted him to install them on their FUVs. I believe the cost is around $1500+-. They appear to have an acceptable fit an finish look and the owners that have them, like them. Go to the Arcimoto FUV Club to find the member‘s name and personal contact info in case you want to fully enclose a future FUV. Although I haven’t seen them in person, they look real, although it is the internet so I recommend you confirm before making payment.

View attachment 26467
That's a terrible design and extremely dangerous. You need to undo the zipper just to open the door? I was thinking like a Jeep but this solution is a no go for me and I suggest nobody else do it, due to not being able to get out of it in case of an emergency. Now we are back at step one. No full doors until the company redesigns the chassis.
 

RSchneider

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Production scale was/is intended to lower that base price considerably, providing demand is there, Catch 22 the lower price point would likely increase demand. I’m beginning to think demand for three wheelers is and always will be a niche market vehicle.
Plus, why buy a $19,900 version when you can buy an $11,900 version? This would be like if Rivian told everyone that even though their pickup costs $74,800 that once production ramps up and they are making lots of them, the price would drop to $44,800. Thus, who would buy one at a 40% markup. Yes the uber rich will at first but to get volume, you need more than them.

This is the main reason why when you have a forecast of thinking that you can drop the price 40% down the road is completely wrong. I suspect it was the same sort of ideas of like having full doors, full HVAC and an optional extended battery pack were obviously not in the cards. Instead, inflate the numbers and get the public money. Then back peddle. Thus the reason why the huge demand is now little. People expected something and are not getting what they were led to believe when they either put money down or bought the stock.

Not that other companies don;t do this but when you are a company dealing in a niche market, you need to be a bit more realistic.
 

Rickb

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No real comparison. Rivian apparently has financial backing and a factory set up for scaled production numbers that allows them to lose thousands of dollars on the initial production Model until production costs and market scale based on assumed demand makes them profitable. Arcimoto is currently dealing in a niche market vehicle price range $19,900-$25K. Comparable to other 3 wheeler vehicles on the market, yet some state it’s not a good value. Arcimoto should have done this or that? Perhaps Arcimoto will turn out to be a successful custom niche market vehicle manufacturer and expand their market demographics over time by offering a fully enclosed or 4 wheeler model. They aren’t out of the game until they lock the Arcimoto doors. Their Tilting MotorWorks division is still profitable as far as I know.

What’s encouraging iis the BEX will be coming soon to the USA market at whatever the stated anticipated price. Was it under $10K and did that include shipping?
 

RSchneider

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Rivian apparently has financial backing and a factory set up for scaled production numbers that allows them to lose thousands of dollars on the initial production Model until production costs and market scale based on assumed demand makes them profitable.
So did Arcimoto. Same scenario, different product.

Their Tilting MotorWorks division is still profitable as far as I know.
TMW loses the least amount of money, thus could be considered the most profitable.

First 9 months of 2022
TMW - $1.3M (Lost)
Rental for FUV's - $1.5M (Lost)
Sales of FUV - $44M (Lost)

If you look at the first 9 months of 2021:
TMW - $359K (Lost)
Rental for FUV's - $73K (Lost)
Sales of FUV - $11M (Lost)

Hopefully TMW can turn it around this quarter and make a profit. We will see soon. I am just using the official numbers from the company too.

As for BEX, doesn't matter. Not asking for reservations or public funding. Thus the price doesn't matter until the time comes. With these other companies quoting prices and then asking for money and either not delivering or changing the specs, a completely different animal. Even Rivian got caught in this bait and switch game.
 

Rickb

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So did Arcimoto. Same scenario, different product.


TMW loses the least amount of money, thus could be considered the most profitable.

First 9 months of 2022
TMW - $1.3M (Lost)
Rental for FUV's - $1.5M (Lost)
Sales of FUV - $44M (Lost)

If you look at the first 9 months of 2021:
TMW - $359K (Lost)
Rental for FUV's - $73K (Lost)
Sales of FUV - $11M (Lost)

Hopefully TMW can turn it around this quarter and make a profit. We will see soon. I am just using the official numbers from the company too.

As for BEX, doesn't matter. Not asking for reservations or public funding. Thus the price doesn't matter until the time comes. With these other companies quoting prices and then asking for money and either not delivering or changing the specs, a completely different animal. Even Rivian got caught in this bait and switch game.
Perhaps the problem is the definition of target pricing. Seems they pull it out their ear. Nobody knows what the actual MSRP will be until the specs are finalized, off the shelf/custom parts are available, parts supplier partners on board, limited or volume pricing costs, manufacturing costs in general to include the fully tooled up and ready to assemble manufacturing plant,, overhead, and employee and/or robot assembler costs….impossible to meet the target. If their target sets high……….less interest and fewer reservations to indicate market demand…..based on price. I understand BEX doesn’t matter, but I’m still curious if the BEX target price has been mentioned. Affordability matters to most members on this forum to include me.
 
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RSchneider

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Perhaps the problem is the definition of target pricing. Seems they pull it out their ear. Nobody knows what the actual MSRP will be until the specs are finalized, off the shelf/custom parts are available, parts supplier partners on board, limited or volume pricing costs, manufacturing costs in general to include the fully tooled up and ready to assemble manufacturing plant,, overhead, and employee and/or robot assembler costs….impossible to meet the target.
You can. I do it all of the time.


If their target sets high……….less interest and fewer reservations to indicate market demand…..based on price.
Yes. That's why you go low and hope that the volume will take off like gangbusters and thus the price will go lower. What the realistic plan is, set a price based on the experience and know how of the group. Then use that price where you will lose money at the beginning but make money once the volume goes up. Not tell everyone the target price in the beginning. The low price is what everyone remembers. Then these companies for some reason think that inflation doesn't exist. Yet it does. They have people that do forecasting and see what 10 years out is going to be.

Arcimoto made the mistake of mentioning a low price to get investors. Same for the specs package. They missed both by a major amount. The initial product sounded great. It got the 5K reservations and $19M in investing. Now they changed what they are going to sell and I know for a fact some will not buy until they go back to what they were sold on.

As for BEX. If Mark tells us it's going to cost $10K and then starts taking reservations, uses that number of reservations to get millions in funding, I have a problem with that. If he just goes ahead and builds it gets done and then comes up with a final price, then takes reservations and delivers, I'm OK with that scenario. I'm assuming we are at least a year out from when we will see the final product. Now we wait. Luckily, we get to see progress as opposed to silence. All it's costing people is their eyeball time. That's free.
 

Mark BEX

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If he just goes ahead and builds it gets done and then comes up with a final price, then takes reservations and delivers, I'm OK with that scenario. I'm assuming we are at least a year out from when we will see the final product. Now we wait. Luckily, we get to see progress as opposed to silence. All it's costing people is their eyeball time. That's free.

Something like that.

My price has always been sub $10K, I know it's going to be cheaper, but only a fool would state a price, then deliver at a higher one, the public do not like that scenario.

Happens all too often though.
 

RSchneider

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Something like that.

My price has always been sub $10K, I know it's going to be cheaper, but only a fool would state a price, then deliver at a higher one, the public do not like that scenario.

Happens all too often though.
I blame lots of it on the whole crowdfunding rage that happened for a while. Elio did a great job of it along with many other companies. Elio pretty much ruined it for other companies. Over the top spec sheet for a overly cheap vehicle. When it couldn't be done, the people that were suckered into giving money to that company, then found out down the road, they had been duped. If he would have done that same vehicle with the same spec sheet yet never took a dime from the public, then nobody would be unhappy when it never made it to market.
 

Mark BEX

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can buy an $11,900 version?

Here you go... 24 miles, and "$11,900" ...

 
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