Arcimoto

[RSchneider]

That's sad news for FUV and I won't be surprise of SOLO's fate be the same unless they come up with the TWIN (for twin seats). 3wheelers ain't safe enough, not big enough to use for business hence Pizza Hut opted for Chevy Bolt for their delivery service. It's a grown-up toy who fancy unique rides. For the rest of us who take 3wheelers seriously as a daily driver, the wait remains.

Plus, when a company says they are going to make an $11,900 model but is selling a 17,900 model, why would you want to spend an extra 50% on a product? Mark said that by 2025, they will be able to produce 50k in a year. I suspect that’s enough to offer the $11,900 model. I can wait 2 years. Seems that others found this out too.

Then, Elio is telling me that in 2023, they will sell a fully enclosed EV for $14,900 and give increased range. Not to mention the ESS, ABS, TC, Stability and 3 Airbags.

 

[AriLea]

Apparently the real problem is the lack of market demand to justify mass production required to bring the price down. I’m done with three wheelers.

I have to disagree about it being demand. Yes, there is potential and not current demand.
Simply; (when about an Elio 3w or clone 3w with full cabin)
There is no market with common current drivers because few people are familiar, and no actual modern product of this type at the specific price exists, never has. Only the Messchersmitt, Isetta's and Hienkels (some others) were anything similar and had a very good run. But all had very underserved drivetrains for the world that was developing at that time. So they died out and were not replaced. These vehicles were only put forward to solve an ecconomic disaster after WWII. The Reliant Robin is a bit more of a good example, but it is also not all that safe for US freeways, or the autoban for that case. You can call all of those 'city cars', or Kei-Cars.

Makers just after that old world all wanted to inspire products with bigger profit margins. It's still like that. This is NOT a customer bound problem. They do not make a compact ecconobox because they want to. They must, to enter/maintain thier market share, only at certain times. That's all.

It takes basic market research with real people to find out how acceptible an Elio or Bex sales in mass production would fly. I did some of that activity, almost like conducting a college psychic study. As soon as you connect the dots on the sale price of the Elio matched to the 80 MPG mileage, people who couldn't give a crap about fun driving or anything like that, now they were interested and checking things on the calculator, until you say $100 deposit for a future product. Then it's, "sure I will take a look when it's actually selling". So these people stay fairly under the radar, compared to how many there are.

Fun and sports, retiries, all of them, sure $100 deposit OK in a percentage of cases.
The fun/sports people will spend a lot more money, but as a group are just a small fraction compared to the "Oh? I can save that much in my commute?" people. These are two very different sets of customers.

Do you know any one willing to spend 2billion to get a product like this out the door, even if we successfully proved my point about popularity? I don't.
For the same money they can make 10times as much elsewhere.

So, the maket that can sell a safe 3 wheeler commuter(, and only a 3 wheeler can do it...)? The cost of fuel saved paying for the car. That hits the mark.

 

[RSchneider]

It takes basic market research with real people to find out how acceptible an Elio or Bex sales in mass production would fly.

Elio did this and they can sell 250K per year. Problem solved. For 250K per year at $6800 you make money and it feeds the market. Use the Elio research data and go for the funding. It's super simple.

 

[Mark BEX]

I have to disagree about it being demand. Yes, there is potential and not current demand.

Doesn't bother me, I have designed and intentionally created a methodology that I can make 10 or 10,000.

My minimum to go ahead was 100 units so I didn't lose money, I believe that minimum will be realised.

Do you know any one willing to spend 2billion to get a product like this out the door, even if we successfully proved my point about popularity? I don't.
For the same money they can make 10times as much elsewhere.

Absolutely. I'm in this because of my love for cars, and my dream to have a car bearing my name, regardless that I always thought it would be a wild supercar, not an econocar at the other end of the scale, lol!

For example, I dumped a little cash into a hydrogen IPO 3 years ago, it's quadrupled since then, eg; there are far easier ways to make money than a car startup.

That hits the Mark.

My wife does that often enough.


As for Achimoto, I don't want to see them fail, a few brands early on, compliments each other, excites and establishes a market that gives choice and encourages clients into the area (before the market becomes flooded).

But it's clear they are seriously overspending, and when you have waiting clients lined up with cash and can't meet that demand, you don't go developing other products wasting your time, resources and money.

The Mean Lean Machine - Ultra Efficient Electric Vehicles

www.arcimoto.com

 

[Mark BEX]

Who better understands Arcimoto’s business plan than Arcimoto.

Is that a serious comment? Very few managers really understand business, and the less money you have, the more you are forced to understand it. I see Achimoto as victims of having big slush funds, kids in a candy store.

Some of the best business managers are housewives in poor households holding a family together.

3wheelers ain't safe enough,

That's more relative to size than having 3 wheels. Numbers of small hatchbacks around that I wouldn't want to be in the rear seat if someone runs into the back of you, sitting mere inches away from the impact, and I would suggest that the rear seat pax in my 3 wheeler is actually safer in a rear end crash than some of those hatchbacks.

As for turning over, well it's a given that a 3 wheeler is less stable than a 4 wheeler, it's just physics, but comes down to driving accordingly, but still far safer than a motorcycle.

 

[Rickb]

Is that a serious comment? Very few managers really understand business, and the less money you have, the more you are forced to understand it. I see Achimoto as victims of having big slush funds, kids in a candy store.

Some of the best business managers are housewives in poor households holding a family together.



That's more relative to size than having 3 wheels. Numbers of small hatchbacks around that I wouldn't want to be in the rear seat if someone runs into the back of you, sitting mere inches away from the impact, and I would suggest that the rear seat pax in my 3 wheeler is actually safer in a rear end crash than some of those hatchbacks.

As for turning over, well it's a given that a 3 wheeler is less stable than a 4 wheeler, it's just physics, but comes down to driving accordingly, but still far safer than a motorcycle.

Yes, a very serious comment having followed Arcimoto since 2008, met the dedicated team, factory tour, test drive, small investor, and hopeful customer if/when the FUV is fully enclosed. Arcimoto was/is a dedicated team of professionals with a variety of backgrounds/skill sets from business, finance, marketing, design, engineering, technicians, and fabricators dedicated to their Mission Statement.. R&D was privately funded and efficiently spent. No kids in the candy store mentality in my opinion. Elio Motors……maybe. Sounds as though we will know on Friday if Arcimoto gets the necessary funding required to continue theIr journey. I look forward to meeting you, your Team, and test driving the fully certified production model BEX.

 

[Ace]

I look forward to meeting you, your Team, and test driving the fully certified production model BEX.

Is this a dig of some sort? You made similar statements before, but it sounds to me like you don't think he can get it made and certified?

 

[Rickb]

Is this a dig of some sort? You made similar statements before, but it sounds to me like you don't think he can get it made and certified?

Sincere statement. I’ve been following and wanting to purchase a fully enclosed three wheeler for 12+ years. The BEX prototype build is looking good and I’m eager to see it screaming around the test track. His chances of getting a certified production model made are as good as all the others. I’m part of the market demographic that would buy one……..after a test drive to verify it meets my needs to include a dealer or mobile tech. servicing network.

 

[RSchneider]

Best part is this. It can be done and in a 6 year timeframe. Vanderhall has made a fully certified 3 wheeler with a nationwide dealer and support network. Plus they offer free test drives. Just like the FUV, it doesn’t fit everyone’s needs. At least it made it across the finish line and done so well they are working on product #2. If Vanderhall can do it, anyone can. What else I like is they did it without public funding or advances via reservations.

 

[RSchneider]

I see Achimoto as victims of having big slush funds, kids in a candy store.

I agree. When Arcimoto won the lottery (aka an IPO) they went on a spending spree for things that could have been spent for manufacturing equipment and developing the FUV with items like full doors, HVAC, increased range and a steering wheel. Instead, it was spent on buying TMW and developing things like the MLM and every other variation of the FUV (minus the deliverator). Top it off, limiting the sales footprint and service.

They made terrible business decisions and are paying the price. Mark was probably super happy to have his phone ringing off the hook after the IPO. He should have been more diligent on who he wrote checks to.