A Million Questions About Elio, But Here's My Big One.

[Jeff Porter]

[Broken External Image]
Another Google alert The New Zealand Hearald.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=11311148

36 km / litre for gas useage??? Is that good? LOL *grabs calculator*

 

[MASCMAN]

Anyone on here own a motorcycle that could chime in on this?

Apples to oranges.

I have built my Harley to about 90hp/ 90tg...my tire didn't last this season. Motorcycle tires are generally softer for better traction. I can pull the front wheel when I shift...pretty hard on it. Dont think we will have that problem in the Elio!

I think the Elio will do fine with real car tires. I would almost think the rear would wear faster due to the car pivoting so to speak. Does that make sense?

 

[Ekh]

Fibreglass can weather out pretty badly and develop stress cracks in the gel coat from simple vibration. And who knows what they're making the exhaust components from. The exposed front suspension members are another vulnerable area.

On the plus side, they're guaranteeing the car for 36,000 miles. At $6,800 you could darn near buy a new one every three years and STILL come out ahead -- compare 1 $30,000 car every 6 years to 2 Elios, and you're bucks up to the tune of $16,400 PLUS the gas savings (in my case, about $2,300 per year at $3.70/gallon, adjusted for my ratio of highway vs. city driving).


So, let's give your hypothetical big, long-lasting car a generous 25 mpg overall. Assume you only drive 15,000 miles per year. The Elio costs you $16,400 LESS to buy 2 of than to buy 1 big car!

Here's a realistic comparison, slightly simplified

Big car cost:

$30,000 plus $1,800 sales tax (at 6% = $31,800. Fuel cost for 15000 miles for 6 years @ 25mpg @3.71 = $13,356. Total $45,156

Elio:

2 Elios @ 6,800 + 6% tax = 14,416. Gas (assuming 60% city, 40% highway) = $5,679/ Total = $20,995

The Elio saves you $24,161, ASSUMING YOU HAD TO BUY TWO OF THEM, so you had minimal out-of-warranty repair costs.

If poor you were forced to make do with ONE Elio, and made it last 6 years, assume $3,000 in repair costs (high, I suspect), and your cost is $15,659. You save $29,497 dollars -- even if the big car had ZERO repair costs in 90,000 miles.

These are staggering numbers. And they are pretty realistic, though simplified a bit. Even if they were wrong by 50% you STILL win thousands betting on the Elio.

In other words, you could buy about 6, yes SIX Elios, one per year with zero recapture from selling the old ones, and STILL come out slightly ahead of your $30,000 / 25mpg car.

So, let your cheap Elio break down. Fix it, keep fixing it, repaint it, use it in a demolition derby and replace it -- YOU ARE STILL WAY, WAY AHEAD.

That is why the Elio is so vital to America's economy, if it ever becomes a significant part of the American automobile fleet.

 

[MASCMAN]

Not to pick on you, but that Ranger has several problems that CAN be fixed, which brings up a point of something called maintenance.

When a part rusts out ( which is normal) and then not replaced and causes more damage, that is poor maintenance. Lol

Any car with poor maintenace is usually called a piece of shit by its owner...but is it really? Just a thought on longevity...

 

[Jeff Porter]

Apples to oranges.

I have built my Harley to about 90hp/ 90tg...my tire didn't last this season. Motorcycle tires are generally softer for better traction. I can pull the front wheel when I shift...pretty hard on it. Dont think we will have that problem in the Elio!

I think the Elio will do fine with real car tires. I would almost think the rear would wear faster due to the car pivoting so to speak. Does that make sense?

Lots of science of force in the answer to your question, Mascman. More weight up front, but only one tire in back. The tires need grip on the front, the tire in back only needs to keep the back off the ground.

My guess? Rear will wear at a slower rate than the fronts. But, it's an uneducated guess. :-)

 

[Ekh]

I've re-written the Elio/ big car comparison piece and published on Linked-In. Feel free to pass the link along.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20140821191957-11335209-comp

 

[Ekh]

Lots of science of force in the answer to your question, Mascman. More weight up front, but only one tire in back. The tires need grip on the front, the tire in back only needs to keep the back off the ground..

Not so sure the rear tire doesn't have more of a job than that! For one thing, the ESC (swerve control) takes it into account when controlling brake / throttle in evasive maneuvers. If it were "irrelevant," that wouldn't be the case. See the recent tech talk piece on safety:

"Working from its Novi, Mich., North American Research & Development Center, Mando has developed an ESC system designed specifically to work with a three-wheel vehicle and to provide safety functionality in line with today’s safest vehicles."
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For another, the rear tire is a tad wider than the front tires. There' must be a reason for that ... because that choice makes it harder to carry a spare (if you wanted to mount a spare tire carrier rack, which is one of the top 10 option picks people say they want.) Accordingly, I reason that the extra width is needed for stability (possibly to reduce the sideways tipping leverage if the rear seat passenger somehow gets kitty-corner, or off center). Possibly just to improve the ride back there...

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[Ekh]

I'm an "end user" Anytime one of my vehicles breaks, I weigh repair cost, replacement cost, and price of scrap.

My last 3 commuters were all over 250,000 miles when I was done with em, and I'm working on 300K on the current one.

IMO, modern lubricants and better electronics, along with better rust prevention, are the big keys to long vehicle life.

I'm fairly confident I'll be able to take an Elio well over 200k based on what I've seen so far.

Had a 1983 Camry. Bought it used with 43,000 miles on it (2 years old). Drove it 240,000 miles in 5 or 6 years. Put an ad in the grocery store with a picture of a Camry circling moon, and the caption "we drove our Camry here, you drive it back again." Sold immediately for $640 dollars. Warranted it to the end of the driveway, but I later heard it died 6 weeks later ... Still, we though we got our fair amount of use out of it! If the Elio could only do that well!

 

[Ekh]

Well... It's not the car that lasts 200,000 miles it is the parts that last that long.

Most of the parts come from suppliers which also supply the auto manufacturers so I would expect the longevity of the Elio to be "competitive" with that.

I can't get a lock on the engine though as far as figuring longevity. I just don't know but they are working with good people so *probably* it will be fine.

Flame sprayed cylinder bores in an aluminum block (no sleeves) scare me just a bit .... but we'll see. Just DON'T ever let the oil pressure drop....

 

[Music Man]

So I've been reading posts on this forum for about 3 or 4 weeks now in an attempt to not ask the same questions twice. Most of my questions have been answered and the rest no one really knows yet (like the look of the final model, how the car will 'feel' between automatic and transmission, other final product things...). My only major concern is the life of the vehicle. Given my experience with other things, the old adage 'you get what you pay for' holds true in most cases. I feel like I know less about the overall build of the vehicle than some people on here, so I'd like to get other opinions on this. Do you think this is something that will fall apart at 80,000 miles or could you expect to see this to the 200,000 limit (given proper vehicle maintenance of course)?

WOW! Great question, Stiffler.

Wish that someone here could give you some sort of "guaranteed" answer, but it would be my best guess, and OWN stupid opinion, that ANYTHING quoted here, By ANYONE, Including the "staff" members would be strictly conjecture!

But, with that stupid opinion being voiced, I would think that we must believe in, and TRUST those in the Company that are trained engineers to create a reliable product to bring to the market place.

At the end of the day, I think that is the way we handle EVERY situation that demands a decision.

Good luck. . . . . . , do you believe?

WE DO!