48 Volt Hybrids Coming In Just Over A Year!

[Mike W]

Rats! I double posted, I said what I wanted but meant to post just the last one to narrow in on the battery problem specifically rather than a vehicle they sit in.

 

[Lil4X]

While EV's would seem to be environmentally responsible, they leave a lot to be desired. EV's only displace the combustion process from on board the vehicle to miles away in an electrical generating plant.

But possibly more environmentally dangerous is the mining, manufacture, and disposal/recycling of the heavy metallic components of the batteries. For now, this industry is being outsourced to China and southeast Asia, where pollution of air, earth, and water are not closely regulated, but at some point that may change, and the economics of EV manufacturing could be turned upside down.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

While EV's would seem to be environmentally responsible, they leave a lot to be desired. EV's only displace the combustion process from on board the vehicle to miles away in an electrical generating plant.

But possibly more environmentally dangerous is the mining, manufacture, and disposal/recycling of the heavy metallic components of the batteries. For now, this industry is being outsourced to China and southeast Asia, where pollution of air, earth, and water are not closely regulated, but at some point that may change, and the economics of EV manufacturing could be turned upside down.

1. Electrical cars are 6 TIMES more efficient than similar internal combustion cars.
2. A single reactor, even coal, is more efficient that thousands of idling cars
3. Multiple electricity including coal, natural gas, nuclear, wind, solar, hydro, allows for efficient selection
4. Minimal heavy metal components in Lithium Batteries.
5. In fact, Lithium batters are almost completely recyclable.

Your argument has been debunked over and over.

 

[AriLea]

I remain optimistic about EV drives. Someday, someday.

 

[Chaz]

It means you do not understand physics.
1. Electrical cars are 6 TIMES more efficient than similar internal combustion cars.
2. A single reactor, even coal, is more efficient that thousands of idling cars
3. Multiple electricity including coal, natural gas, nuclear, wind, solar, hydro, allows for efficient selection
4. Minimal heavy metal components in Lithium Batteries.
5. In fact, Lithium batters are almost completely recyclable.

Your argument has been debunked over and over.

Yes, but you are forgetting about all the energy required to mine the material for the batteries. This is a very intense operation ending in a car that by the time it is completed has polluted the same amount as an average gas power car that has driven 80,000 miles. That is even before it has been driven off the lot. The electric car needs to make up this difference over its life cycle. Then the more you drive an electric car the batteries give you lower and lower capacity. This makes the pollution savings not as great as one thinks.
As for choosing what electricity you want to use is not really possible you get what is on the grid, no matter what you pay for. Solar does not work at night and wind power only works when it is windy. This means that electric companies have to also have fossil fuel plants operating on standby to take up the slack. These plants are not as efficient since they are not operating at peak power which they are designed to do. The other problem is most of the places that have enough wind and sun are not close to where the power is needed, so you have to build long transmission lines adding to cost.
How many birds are being killed by wind and solar plants? One report estimates over 500,000 birds are killed by wind farms in the U.S.. The solar farm in the Mojave desert has been reported to be killing a bird every 2 minutes by lighting them on fire. That does not sound very nice for a "clean" form of energy now does it. Electric cars are not the answer at this time. They need more research, my guess is that capacitors will be the answer not batteries.

 

[Smitty901]

I am not to excited about hybrids , they are a con. No one ever factors in the true cost of charging them and battery replacement. With out someone else picking up part of the tab they are not cost effective

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Yes, but you are forgetting about all the energy required to mine the material for the batteries. This is a very intense operation ending in a car that by the time it is completed has polluted the same amount as an average gas power car that has driven 80,000 miles. That is even before it has been driven off the lot. The electric car needs to make up this difference over its life cycle. Then the more you drive an electric car the batteries give you lower and lower capacity. This makes the pollution savings not as great as one thinks.
As for choosing what electricity you want to use is not really possible you get what is on the grid, no matter what you pay for. Solar does not work at night and wind power only works when it is windy. This means that electric companies have to also have fossil fuel plants operating on standby to take up the slack. These plants are not as efficient since they are not operating at peak power which they are designed to do. The other problem is most of the places that have enough wind and sun are not close to where the power is needed, so you have to build long transmission lines adding to cost.
How many birds are being killed by wind and solar plants? One report estimates over 500,000 birds are killed by wind farms in the U.S.. The solar farm in the Mojave desert has been reported to be killing a bird every 2 minutes by lighting them on fire. That does not sound very nice for a "clean" form of energy now does it. Electric cars are not the answer at this time. They need more research, my guess is that capacitors will be the answer not batteries.

And you are forgetting about the infrastructure required to research the oil fields, pump it out, transport it AROUND THE PLANET, crack it transport it again, store it, THEN pay off the respective governments for the pleasure of using their oil, and the defense expenditure to maintain "friendly" governments, open shipping lanes, and smooth passage in an inherently unstable area.

They are NOT the same, and it's not even CLOSE.

I appreciate the lesson on physics, wind power doesn't work when it is not windy. Wow!! Great observation! Solar doesn't work when it is not sunny. Well spotted!.
That's why wind generators are placed in windy areas and solar panels are placed in sunny areas. And that is why they don't REPLACE coal, they unload it. Can it replace 50-75% of conventional coal usage? GREAT!! Is it the final answer? No, of course not.

Birds? Please grow up. Cats kill 50 times that every year. Come back when you want to destroy the domestic cat population to save the world.

Back to the point, you claim electric cars pollute as much as gas cars.
it's BUNK.
Move along.

To address Smitty:
Hybrids were supposed to be a transitional technology. 5-7 years tops.
The idea was to transition the factory and more importantly, the component makers to the electrical side.
You don't just spool up auto specific electrical drive components overnight. From materials to manufacturing to quality to standards to safety, it needs to evolve. The electrical power supplies (batteries) just haven't panned out. So the Toyota, the main investor in the technology kept their flagship hybrid going. Every other auto manufacturer figured that they can license Toyota's technology, put it in their SUV's and charge an extra $10-20k.

In the Prius, it allows an undersized ICE engine with insufficient low end torque to be supplemented with an electrical motor with excels at low end torque. The Prius efficiency comes primarily from aerodynamics. Elio has its much touted "moves half the air" combined with a longer stroke engine with better low end performance to avoid needing the electrical drive.

Hybrid SUV's have the advantage of using the HOV lane.

 

[Chaz]

And you are forgetting about the infrastructure required to research the oil fields, pump it out, transport it AROUND THE PLANET, crack it transport it again, store it, THEN pay off the respective governments for the pleasure of using their oil, and the defense expenditure to maintain "friendly" governments, open shipping lanes, and smooth passage in an inherently unstable area.

They are NOT the same, and it's not even CLOSE.

I appreciate the lesson on physics, wind power doesn't work when it is not windy. Wow!! Great observation! Solar doesn't work when it is not sunny. Well spotted!.
That's why wind generators are placed in windy areas and solar panels are placed in sunny areas. And that is why they don't REPLACE coal, they unload it. Can it replace 50-75% of conventional coal usage? GREAT!! Is it the final answer? No, of course not.

Birds? Please grow up. Cats kill 50 times that every year. Come back when you want to destroy the domestic cat population to save the world.

Back to the point, you claim electric cars pollute as much as gas cars.
it's BUNK.
Move along.

To address Smitty:
Hybrids were supposed to be a transitional technology. 5-7 years tops.
The idea was to transition the factory and more importantly, the component makers to the electrical side.
You don't just spool up auto specific electrical drive components overnight. From materials to manufacturing to quality to standards to safety, it needs to evolve. The electrical power supplies (batteries) just haven't panned out. So the Toyota, the main investor in the technology kept their flagship hybrid going. Every other auto manufacturer figured that they can license Toyota's technology, put it in their SUV's and charge an extra $10-20k.

In the Prius, it allows an undersized ICE engine with insufficient low end torque to be supplemented with an electrical motor with excels at low end torque. The Prius efficiency comes primarily from aerodynamics. Elio has its much touted "moves half the air" combined with a longer stroke engine with better low end performance to avoid needing the electrical drive.

Hybrid SUV's have the advantage of using the HOV lane.

Why don't you just admit that no matter what anyone brings up you are set on electric cars? They are not the answer at this time. You dismiss anything brought up as drivel.
Once again here is another report about the pollution outputs
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ys-british-study/story-e6frg8y6-1226073103576
Or
http://www.slate.com/articles/techn...rs_environmental_impact_depends_on_where.html

Or
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/a...on-where-you-plug-in.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I know these articles do not matter in your words "it's bunk".

 

[wayne kemp]

When batteries get strong enough to run my weed eater more than 30 minutes I will take look at electric cars.
Don't look like I'll be looking anytime soon. Anyway has anyone priced the cost of batteries for electric cars? To high right now, maybe in 10 years of so.

 

[Smitty901]

The trick with a hybrid is to pawn it off on someone else just before the batteries stop taking a full charge. Then the next owner get burned with the cost to replace them. I have a few friends that fell for the hybrid scam they found out the cost once the batteries started going down hill