2015 Tanom Invader 197hp. Usa Built.

[Elio Amazed]

 

[outsydthebox]

Very good! It's good to see another RT hit the market. Did you catch "how long" it took to bring to market?....6 years! I think Jay could understand just how incredibly complicated it is to bring something like it to production. So, It helps put the Elio "in perspective." WAY more complicated goals(air bags & 5-star safety) and still under 10K (out the door). I think, seeing this hit the market will add credibility to the 3-wheel/RT concept and to EM.

 

[Sethodine]

They say that anything can fly if you apply enough thrust. The same is true in manufacturing: anything can be made if you are willing to spend enough money. One-offs and low-production items cost a lot per-piece but don't need extensive manufacturing infrastructure, whereas something like the Elio takes a lot of money in infrastructure costs to producde a low cost-per-piece item.

 

[Rickb]

Speaking of spending enough money to get something made. It would be interesting to compare EM's (8 years +) and Tanom's (6 years to production) business model, funding, actual dollars spent, and start up business debt to get their concept vehicles ready for production, regardless of whether it's mass produced or a low volume production vehicle.

The high performance Tanom is as or more more complicated than the Elio and may as safe or safer by substituting the airbag with a 5 point safety harness similar to what's used by NASCAR. Keep in mind, someone said that EM has pulled promoting the 5 star safety rating off the table.

Jay Leno's comment about Concept Vehicles (successes and failures), Engineers, Dreamers, and getting a successful product to market rings true.

 

[Sethodine]

MSRP on the Tanom Invader is $55,000. That's about 8 times the projected cost of the Elio! Too bad none of the other numbers on the Invader are so readily available.

 

[McBrew]

Keep in mind, someone said that EM has pulled promoting the 5 star safety rating off the table.

I don't think there is a "star" rating for motorcycles/auto cycles. I believe that's the main reason why they aren't using that guideline any more.

 

[Ray O]

Really cool video. With the hayabushi engine I would just that the MPG would be less than 30 MPG's. With the added weight over the motorcycle. This also will not go well in the snow.

 

[cantwait]

We do have some information available on the Tanom Invader. If anyone is interested, they searching for "Tanom Invader $10 million", as that is the amount that the owners spent to bring the trike/autocycle to market. There are a few videos and pics out there showing their shop/manufacturing facility. It looks like a very professional operation.

It is clear that the market demographics are different from Elio's: One is a low-cost, low-performance, high-mpg unit, while the other is high-cost, high-performance, low-mpg unit. There are enough similarities, however to compare and contrast.

Both are start-up companies trying to bring a reverse trike/autocycle to market.
Both have taken a while to develop the product. Six years from concept to production for Tanom. Eight years from concept to "one more year" production for Elio.
Both are small privately-held (up 'til now) companies. Tanom did most of their pre-production work with 2 employees, Elio with 17-23.

Tanom, with six years and $10 million, is now selling production units for ~$55k each. These units are DOT and EPA certified and are road legal. The assumption is that this price will allow them to be profitable and allow them a return on their investment. They are projecting to build another production model for about half that MSRP, but that has not happened yet.

Elio, with eight years and $70 million, has built 4 "prototypes" for $100-500k each. These units are not DOT nor EPA certified, and are not road legal. They are are projecting to build 25 more prototypes at a cost of approximately $12.5 million, followed by two more series of prototypes at additional costs of $240+ million before reaching production. They are projecting to build production models for $6800-7600 in a year or more, but that has not happened yet.

Elio clearly has a more ambitious project, but Tanom clearly has accomplished more for the money and time spent. Elio "acquired" a factory and equipment long before having a production-quality vehicle, and this is costing them about $10 million per year. Because Tanom is able to sell vehicles for $55k, it seems reasonable to believe that Elio should have been able to produce road-worthy, tested and legal prototypes for $55k each with "only" a $10 million investment.

As I see it, there are things to admire in both projects. Tanom is in production. That is impressive. The vehicle is impressive. It remains to be seen whether there is sufficient market demand for them to be profitable, remain in business, and come out with a more mass-market vehicle.

Elio has shown incredible persistence and determination. The prototypes show potential. They have collected a lot of money and have raised a lot of interest. It remains to be seen whether they can build a vehicle that will meet and pass EPA and DOT standards, whether they can raise sufficient money to start production, and whether there is sufficient market demand for them to be profitable, remain in business.

 

[Rickb]

MSRP on the Tanom Invader is $55,000. That's about 8 times the projected cost of the Elio! Too bad none of the other numbers on the Invader are so readily available.

The MSRP is essentially determined by the volume of vehicles manufactured. I understand why the high MSRP on the Tanon based on low volume production, so there is no comparison to the Elio, but the cost to get the two concept vehicles production ready should be similar. I doubt Tanon Motors has gone into low volume production with $70 + Million in debt. They would never recover financially.

 

[3wheelin]

We do have some information available on the Tanom Invader. If anyone is interested, they searching for "Tanom Invader $10 million", as that is the amount that the owners spent to bring the trike/autocycle to market. There are a few videos and pics out there showing their shop/manufacturing facility. It looks like a very professional operation.

It is clear that the market demographics are different from Elio's: One is a low-cost, low-performance, high-mpg unit, while the other is high-cost, high-performance, low-mpg unit. There are enough similarities, however to compare and contrast.

Both are start-up companies trying to bring a reverse trike/autocycle to market.
Both have taken a while to develop the product. Six years from concept to production for Tanom. Eight years from concept to "one more year" production for Elio.
Both are small privately-held (up 'til now) companies. Tanom did most of their pre-production work with 2 employees, Elio with 17-23.

Tanom, with six years and $10 million, is now selling production units for ~$55k each. These units are DOT and EPA certified and are road legal. The assumption is that this price will allow them to be profitable and allow them a return on their investment. They are projecting to build another production model for about half that MSRP, but that has not happened yet.

Elio, with eight years and $70 million, has built 4 "prototypes" for $100-500k each. These units are not DOT nor EPA certified, and are not road legal. They are are projecting to build 25 more prototypes at a cost of approximately $12.5 million, followed by two more series of prototypes at additional costs of $240+ million before reaching production. They are projecting to build production models for $6800-7600 in a year or more, but that has not happened yet.

Elio clearly has a more ambitious project, but Tanom clearly has accomplished more for the money and time spent. Elio "acquired" a factory and equipment long before having a production-quality vehicle, and this is costing them about $10 million per year. Because Tanom is able to sell vehicles for $55k, it seems reasonable to believe that Elio should have been able to produce road-worthy, tested and legal prototypes for $55k each with "only" a $10 million investment.

As I see it, there are things to admire in both projects. Tanom is in production. That is impressive. The vehicle is impressive. It remains to be seen whether there is sufficient market demand for them to be profitable, remain in business, and come out with a more mass-market vehicle.

Elio has shown incredible persistence and determination. The prototypes show potential. They have collected a lot of money and have raised a lot of interest. It remains to be seen whether they can build a vehicle that will meet and pass EPA and DOT standards, whether they can raise sufficient money to start production, and whether there is sufficient market demand for them to be profitable, remain in business.

Well said catwait! The ambitious part of EM's journey is it's target $6,800 base price. I'm no expert on anything but it's hard for me to believe that you can HAVE MORE FOR LESS and still be profitable, have the quality one expect and safe at the same time! Airbag, A/C and heat, enclosed cabin, cage like construction, a brand spanking new engine? I mean the Tanom does not even come close in terms of owner comfort but they have to sell theirs for a lot more not because they want to but just to recoup their investment and hopefully stay profitable at the same time! I must admit, the first thing that stood out when I first saw the ELIO is the price...it's like a light bulb....ding, ding, ding, wow, a 3 wheeler that I can really afford??? I better get into it and send my 1K!!! It start to dawn on me to expect a much higher price for our ELIO if it is to go into production. Problem is, can I afford it? And of course, here we are, still waiting for angel investors thinking how this project can be profitable for them. (key word-profitable). My opinion only.