120 Mpg Elio? Parts Availabe Online...

[Joshua Caldwell]

Interesting thoughts here. Are we forgetting that the national highway speed has increased? If you drive at 65 mph in most states on the highway then you might get run over. 75 mph (because nobody drives the speed limit either) seems more realistic. I think Umaxen is right that at lower rpm's the Elio engine will benefit from a turbo.

Maybe they go crazy in Ohio, but in NC they're revoking licenses for 10mph over, my last fine was $190 for 6mph over.

 

[JEBar]

Maybe they go crazy in Ohio, but in NC they're revoking licenses for 10mph over, my last fine was $190 for 6mph over.

amen brother .... tell it like it is in the Old North State

Jim

 

[Ty]

I believe that the Elio may very well get better mpg if a turbo is being used, but I highly doubt you'd see anywhere near a 50% increase in fuel efficiency. The engine is already being tuned for low RPM torque, and is going to use a relatively high compression ratio of 10:1 or 11:1 using regular gasoline if I remember correctly. At what point are you going to have to switch to using higher octane fuel, thus negating some of that added fuel efficiency? I legitimately don't know, but I suspect it won't be very cheap or easy.

Every additional mpg the Elio can achieve becomes more difficult than the last, so to anticipate such a drastic increase seems very optimistic to me. But I'll leave it to the engineers to figure it out, I guess. Hopefully I'm wrong. I'd be very interested in hypermiling and pushing the technology just to see how far the Elio can go It's no doubt a great platform for experimenting with all sorts of efficiency-enhancing technologies.

I'd LOVE to put a 20-30hp hub motor on that back tire... mild hybrid/sportster. They aren't that expensive and the battery requirement wouldn't be too bad either. How about a 20 mile range on the 20hp motor (the elio will require less than 17hp to maintain 70 mph)?

 

[NSTG8R]

I'd LOVE to put a 20-30hp hub motor on that back tire... mild hybrid/sportster. They aren't that expensive and the battery requirement wouldn't be too bad either. How about a 20 mile range on the 20hp motor (the elio will require less than 17hp to maintain 70 mph)?

We kind of discussed the "rear wheel motor assist" a while back, and I still believe it could be made to work at increasing effeciency. After some 'light investigating' on EV sites, I'm leaning more towards a clutched (kind of like on your car's AC compressor) belt-drive motor VS the hub motor to keep the unsprung weight from jacking with the handling...and since a DC motor is essentially a generator when not energized, and could assist in braking while recharging the battery. I've still got A LOT of homework to do on the subject, but it seems completely doable to me. Might even help you limp home if something happened to the ICE or tranny!

 

[Kronos]

I'd LOVE to put a 20-30hp hub motor on that back tire... mild hybrid/sportster. They aren't that expensive and the battery requirement wouldn't be too bad either. How about a 20 mile range on the 20hp motor (the elio will require less than 17hp to maintain 70 mph)?

Yes I think that'd be an excellent application! I forget what the average daily commute is, something around 20 or 40 miles if I remember correctly. So a battery just big enough to cover that and the small hub motor would be perfect. I think if they could put a very small battery pack along the floor similar to the Tesla Model S, that'd be the best solution. The battery back in that position really helps keep the weight distribution even, increases structural rigidity, and lowers the center of gravity. I think you'd simple need to raise the height of the floor maybe 2" to put a very thin battery pack there. To decrease the space consumed you could simple decrease the fuel tank capacity a couple gallons or so and stuff some more batteries in that freed up space.

Would this ultimately payoff? I don't know. But it'd be fun and fairly reasonable, regardless.

We kind of discussed the "rear wheel motor assist" a while back, and I still believe it could be made to work at increasing effeciency. After some 'light investigating' on EV sites, I'm leaning more towards a clutched (kind of like on your car's AC compressor) belt-drive motor VS the hub motor to keep the unsprung weight from jacking with the handling...and since a DC motor is essentially a generator when not energized, and could assist in braking while recharging the battery. I've still got A LOT of homework to do on the subject, but it seems completely doable to me. Might even help you limp home if something happened to the ICE or tranny!

Yup I think a clutched motor might be a better solution! Good idea.

 

[NSTG8R]

Yes I think that'd be an excellent application! I forget what the average daily commute is, something around 20 or 40 miles if I remember correctly. So a battery just big enough to cover that and the small hub motor would be perfect. I think if they could put a very small battery pack along the floor similar to the Tesla Model S, that'd be the best solution. The battery back in that position really helps keep the weight distribution even, increases structural rigidity, and lowers the center of gravity. I think you'd simple need to raise the height of the floor maybe 2" to put a very thin battery pack there. To decrease the space consumed you could simple decrease the fuel tank capacity a couple gallons or so and stuff some more batteries in that freed up space.

Would this ultimately payoff? I don't know. But it'd be fun and fairly reasonable, regardless.



Yup I think a clutched motor might be a better solution! Good idea.

Something like the set-up in this all electric vehicle...very similar rear suspension design. Probably not clutched so it would free-wheel when not needed, but that [seems to me] would be the easy part. Keeps the weight of the motor and battery forward of the rear wheel and the CG low. Yep! Now all I need is an actual Elio to fiddle with.

 

[Kronos]

I wonder if it would be at all feasible, with some slight modifications to the design, to create a modular and removable electric-drive system? It'd be interesting to explore the option of a factory-installable electric-drive system (battery, motor, controls) but one that could be installed later if desired, and also easily removed by the owner. I'm thinking of a a plug-and-play sort of system, taking just a few minutes to install or remove.

"Frequently go on a long road trips and don't need to carry around a couple hundred pounds of battery and motor? No problem, just use your key to unlock it and remove it from your car." ^_^

I don't know. It probably wouldn't have a whole lot of use but it's a neat idea I thought.

 

[Triangles]

Maybe they go crazy in Ohio, but in NC they're revoking licenses for 10mph over, my last fine was $190 for 6mph over.

Holy crap! That's insane! I'm never going to NC. I thought the cops were bad enough here in Ohio. I'm over due <finds wood to touch> for a speeding ticket. My last one was 8 years ago and I was clocked at 24mph over (79 in a 55). I don't remember the exact amount but IIRC it was about $130. My worst one was 30mph over and all I got was a fine of $95 but, that was years and years ago when this country wasn't quite the police state it is today.

Getting back to the topic of this thread..... I doubt there will be much of anything that can be "bolted" on the Elio engine to get more than a negligible fuel efficiency increase. However it would be interesting to see Elio offer a model with an "Eco" engine similar to what some of the major auto manufactures are doing. Maybe a smaller displacement (maybe 600cc) and other power/efficiency boosting tech like tubo, direct injection, and a variable dual cam system slapped on. It would be silly to expect this within the first few years of production. I think in order for this to be a reality Elio would have to figure out how to do this without adding more than 1-2k to the vehicle cost since I doubt people would be willing to pay much more than that of a premium, especially on such an inexpensive vehicle. I also imagine the production numbers would have to be pretty high to offset the design/tooling costs. All this for an optimistic +20mpg.

 

[NSTG8R]

I wonder if it would be at all feasible, with some slight modifications to the design, to create a modular and removable electric-drive system? It'd be interesting to explore the option of a factory-installable electric-drive system (battery, motor, controls) but one that could be installed later if desired, and also easily removed by the owner. I'm thinking of a a plug-and-play sort of system, taking just a few minutes to install or remove.

"Frequently go on a long road trips and don't need to carry around a couple hundred pounds of battery and motor? No problem, just use your key to unlock it and remove it from your car." ^_^

I don't know. It probably wouldn't have a whole lot of use but it's a neat idea I thought.

You know what Kronos, that's a pretty good idea...drop-in rear electric motor assist (with battery and controller). Something that could be done by the 'average' mechanically inclined guy with some basic tools in an afternoon. Need to know exactly how much room will be under that rear wheel fairing though. Alas, we need the production model before I'm dropping a dime on anything that would fit the bill...but researching the subject costs nothing but time. But I like the concept!

 

[pistonboy]

Adding a turbo to the elio engine would increase power but decrease mpg. The turbo forces more air into the engine to burn more fuel.

When turbos increase mpg, is when an engine is very small and the turbo allows a "normal" amount of fuel to be burned. Because the engine is small, its friction losses are smaller making it more efficient and increasing mpg.