100 Preproduction Elio's To Be Built In December!!

[Ekh]

I once hear the secret to a long marriage was not to stay in love, but to fall in love again as a habit. I had trouble with that second part without a little help.

I think Elio Motors is at least assisting the process. It's up to each person to figure out where he lies.

There has to be a better phrase. Lies has such a negative connotation from the same word used differently.

Plans change. This is a start-up. Changing plans does not automatically equal "lies." Frankly, except for the delay in full production, which is caused by finances, I can't figure out how we reservation holders are actually harmed. In fact, the process they're using might actually result in our getting a better car SOONER than we would have otherwise, because the plant will be fully set up -- if they'd had to wait til full funding for that, we'd be even more delayed.

Reality changes, opportunities change, and people who can't flex get very disappointed for no good reason. I'd like my car in March, but suspect it may be May or June, if ever. Them's just the breaks. Doesn't make Paul or anyone else a liar, which means making statements contrary to fact intentionally to wound or deceive. Not Paul, and not Elio Motors.

 

[Rickb]

Plans change. This is a start-up. Changing plans does not automatically equal "lies." Frankly, except for the delay in full production, which is caused by finances, I can't figure out how we reservation holders are actually harmed. In fact, the process they're using might actually result in our getting a better car SOONER than we would have otherwise, because the plant will be fully set up -- if they'd had to wait til full funding for that, we'd be even more delayed.

Reality changes, opportunities change, and people who can't flex get very disappointed for no good reason. I'd like my car in March, but suspect it may be May or June, if ever. Them's just the breaks. Doesn't make Paul or anyone else a liar, which means making statements contrary to fact intentionally to wound or deceive. Not Paul, and not Elio Motors.

It's not so much the plans changing that disappoint people that appear to be non-flexible.........it's that they believe without a doubt in what Paul Elio is telling them one day that seems to change overnight. No lies and no harm to reservation holders. Perhaps an anticipated production schedule shouldn't be announced and/or believed until EM announces that production funding is secured and in the bank.........so production plans can go as planned and EM guarantees delivery to all reservationists.........none of the risk statements attached to the new reservationist's contract agreement. That's the point in time that I will be absolutely assured production will happen.........when EM guarantees it will happen........no if's, and's, or but's.

 

[Maurtis]

Only Microsoft has the cajones and the arrogance to sell products still being beta-tested to the public. That's why you NEVER buy a Microsoft product before release 3. These 100 items are the beta test: does the assembly line work without the bailing wire? Can we do without that chewing gum acting like a buffer between those two wiggly pieces?

I hear you on the importance of beta testing. I am a software QA engineer, been doing QA functional and performance testing for the 20 years. Unfortunately I am seeing a new trend selling "early access" to games online at full price, and of course those games get continuous development (levels and features added) but never get out of early access alpha mode. Day-Z is one of those, "released" in 2013 but still an alpha? Ugh... Why test yourself when people can pay you for the privilege to do it for you!

Funny that you should mention a buffer between wiggly pieces, MINI's "fix" for interior squeaks and rattles is pieces of felt inserted between the parts. So take your car in under warranty for squeaks or rattles, you get pieces of felt jammed in to tighten things up.

 

[Muzhik]

Day-Z is one of those, "released" in 2013 but still an alpha? Ugh... Why test yourself when people can pay you for the privilege to do it for you!

Funny that you should mention a buffer between wiggly pieces, MINI's "fix" for interior squeaks and rattles is pieces of felt inserted between the parts. So take your car in under warranty for squeaks or rattles, you get pieces of felt jammed in to tighten things up.

There is a webcomic I follow called "NPC Comic" that recently had an arc based around this. The three girlfriends are playing the great new MMORPG; their rocket ship has just been boarded by killer robots, and they're surrounded. In desperation one of them tries pushing this red button-thingy on the robot about to attack her ... and all the robots fall down. Shut off.

The next few strips deal with the player's testing the button in other situations, the gamedev's attempts to fix the problem (move the button to the place that, on a human, would be the nipple and post a big notice "DO NOT PRESS THIS!"), the gamedev's admins threatening to ban anyone who pushes the button, and finally, the solution: if you press the button, you'll just level down, because they'd rather keep you on buying enhancement packs and the like.

As for the felt: if it's under warranty (so I don't have to pay for it), if it works, and if I'm only in the shop for an hour or less, then no problem!

 

[Ekh]

It's not so much the plans changing that disappoint people that appear to be non-flexible.........it's that they believe without a doubt in what Paul Elio is telling them one day that seems to change overnight. No lies and no harm to reservation holders. Perhaps an anticipated production schedule shouldn't be announced and/or believed until EM announces that production funding is secured and in the bank.........so production plans can go as planned and EM guarantees delivery to all reservationists.........none of the risk statements attached to the new reservationist's contract agreement. That's the point in time that I will be absolutely assured production will happen.........when EM guarantees it will happen........no if's, and's, or but's.

I kind of think roller coaster rides are fun!

 

[Rickb]

I kind of think roller coaster rides are fun!

I agree, but then my interest in the Elio is based on having fun with an affordable around town commuter, unlike those that are seriously counting on the Elio as their major money saving everyday commuter that are living on tight and stressed out family budgets with an old beater vehicle that needs replacing. I understand their frustration of the roller coaster ride particularly if they have skin in the game.........although I'm sure they understood the risk when placing their pre-order and deposit. The future Elio is looking more promising.

 

[Coss]

Thank you Rickb, EKH, Muzhic and the others that can see the truth to the whole program.
I'm another one; I know it will be done; when? When it's done. I did custom vehicles, surveillance vehicles, for years, then IT as a full second career; and I would have people asking me, "when is it going to be done?" "I have to have it by <some impossible date>" and my answer to them was: "Do you want it, or do you want it done right?" Of course the answer was always "...done right".
"Then it will be done, when it's finished" I understand the concept, most don't because they want it and want it all now.

<Hmm reminds me of a song by Queen>

 

[3wheelin]

So...

This thing is like an onion.

just when you think you see a glimpse of future production... up pops another layer.

Important... Leaving funding completely out of this for now...

We're supposed to see e-series cars start testing within a couple of months right?
Then the 100 (Sounds like a cable TV series) will be built and (most likely) sold to (a) suitable buyer(s) in December.
Then as Ari-Lea suggested (I think) under the right conditions, it should only take 3-months to get adequate feedback.

So...

Does that mean that a reasonable guestimate could be Feb/Mar for the hiring process and Mar/Apr for "real" production?

Thoughts?

Didn't you just say "leave funding completely out of this for now"??? Then no amount of guesswork/guesstimate will "work" for the start of production UNTIL we hear from them that funding has been secured! Undetermined date in the future is how it stands right now according to EM in relation to acquiring the funding. It could be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Q2017 or beyond w/out the money! Take your pick! When reality sets in, dream!

 

[Jeff Porter]

Thank you Rickb, EKH, Muzhic and the others that can see the truth to the whole program.
I'm another one; I know it will be done; when? When it's done. I did custom vehicles, surveillance vehicles, for years, then IT as a full second career; and I would have people asking me, "when is it going to be done?" "I have to have it by <some impossible date>" and my answer to them was: "Do you want it, or do you want it done right?" Of course the answer was always "...done right".
"Then it will be done, when it's finished" I understand the concept, most don't because they want it and want it all now.

<Hmm reminds me of a song by Queen>

Great Queen song reference there.

As a fellow IT professional, I knew a manager that had a very wise statement w.r.t. software projects: "Quick, cheap, right. Pick two."

Might be that way with the Elio.

 

[Rickb]

Elon Musk's reply to whining reservationists that had $40,000 reservation deposits down for 3 + years after delays based on overly complex engineering on the Tesla Model X was essentially...................we will manufacture it when we get it right. Paul Elio could simply say, we will build the Elio when we get it right and have the funding in place to do so. I would appreciate and respect that planned production schedule announcement. There would be no more disappointing missed target dates or delay announcements as a direct result.

That will be my new personal anticipated Elio production schedule.....when they finally get it right and have the funding in place........no more on track to BS.........with so many remaining production and funding milestones to meet.