Elio's time has come again?

[RSchneider]

Just watched this. Worth a peek!

What I like about watching something like that is it proved all of the conspiracy theorists wrong. Many thought big oil and the big 3 were going to kill the EV. Instead, it's that the EV wasn't ready for primetime until Tesla came along and the model after the roadster literally rewrote the book on EV's. Since then, everyone has been playing catch up.

 

[dbacksfan81]

Some things that get lost about the Saturn EV1 is that they were lease vehicles with a closed end agreement that they would be returned at the end of the lease to GM. They were all prototype cars with only about 20% of the parts from the GM parts bin and everything else was all proprietary and not available to the aftermarket to develop parts. As part of the agreement, the vehicles could only be serviced and checked up on by the dealership they were leased from, no other GM dealerships had parts or people qualified to work on them.

They made 660 of the Gen1 and 457 of the Gen2 versions which had hybrids powered by gasoline or compressed natural gas. They did have regenerative braking, but the battery technology was the old style deep cycle batteries that you would find in golf carts.

They also had a S-10 EV1 that they made just under 500 of and of those about 60 were actually sold for fleet services to the military and some municipalities which a very few did make their way into private hands after being sold as surplus by the fleet owners. These were all hand modified with the front wheel drive train from the EV1 and had speed limiters add to them to keep them under 70 MPH. They had a lot of hand built cutting and welding done to them so they were not all alike.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_S-10_EV

The only other car that I can think of that was done this way was the Chrysler Turbine cars of the early 60's.

Was GM a bit short sighted? I would say yes, but the battery technology wasn't there yet and the charging infrastructure was extremely small.

 

[Rickb]

Some things that get lost about the Saturn EV1 is that they were lease vehicles with a closed end agreement that they would be returned at the end of the lease to GM. They were all prototype cars with only about 20% of the parts from the GM parts bin and everything else was all proprietary and not available to the aftermarket to develop parts. As part of the agreement, the vehicles could only be serviced and checked up on by the dealership they were leased from, no other GM dealerships had parts or people qualified to work on them.

They made 660 of the Gen1 and 457 of the Gen2 versions which had hybrids powered by gasoline or compressed natural gas. They did have regenerative braking, but the battery technology was the old style deep cycle batteries that you would find in golf carts.

They also had a S-10 EV1 that they made just under 500 of and of those about 60 were actually sold for fleet services to the military and some municipalities which a very few did make their way into private hands after being sold as surplus by the fleet owners. These were all hand modified with the front wheel drive train from the EV1 and had speed limiters add to them to keep them under 70 MPH. They had a lot of hand built cutting and welding done to them so they were not all alike.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_S-10_EV

The only other car that I can think of that was done this way was the Chrysler Turbine cars of the early 60's.

Was GM a bit short sighted? I would say yes, but the battery technology wasn't there yet and the charging infrastructure was extremely small.

Tesla had the same market demand, battery tech, charging infrastructure, and service issues, but plowed ahead to manufacture the vehicle and make improvements in battery tech and increased range along the way. Creating the charging infrastructure during the process was a smart business plan. The MY is my favorite car in 52 years of car ownership and wouldn’t consider buying another I.C.E. vehicle. GM‘s CEO is currently on the right track by designing and engineering some nice looking EVs in their current Model lineup with the advantage of local sales and service………over Tesla‘s direct to consumer/mobile service business model.

 

[dbacksfan81]

JMO, GM's bigger issue was they were producing 7 different car and truck divisions, Chevy/Pontiac/Oldsmobile/Buick/Cadillac/Saturn/GMC as well as globally Holden/Opel/Isuzu/Vauxhaul, that was the bread and butter of their bottom line and the old guard management and the bean counters were not impressed.

Musk and Tesla had the advantage of being single focused on an electric vehicle and charging network and smartly leveraged higher priced models in the beginning to help finance the charging network and more R&D on newer models.

 

[Interested]

With everything, there are tradeoffs. With an EV (gas too), higher speeds means less miles. What is more important to the buyers today? Personally, I don't need a vehicle that goes 100MPH or 0-60 in 3 seconds. Most the places I go anymore are withing five miles of home. Retired, so no hurry. An Elio like vehicle with a range of 150 to 200 miles per charge would be fine. Less weight equals more miles. Motorcycle classification would lower insurance rates. So, it is still an option for this type of vehicle if it existed. Would even consider the inflatable car concept. Always wondered why they don't make an injection molded vehicle. Football helmets can take a lot of abuse and it's recyclable.

 

[Bilbo B]

With everything, there are tradeoffs. With an EV (gas too), higher speeds means less miles. What is more important to the buyers today? Personally, I don't need a vehicle that goes 100MPH or 0-60 in 3 seconds. Most the places I go anymore are withing five miles of home. Retired, so no hurry. An Elio like vehicle with a range of 150 to 200 miles per charge would be fine. Less weight equals more miles. Motorcycle classification would lower insurance rates. So, it is still an option for this type of vehicle if it existed. Would even consider the inflatable car concept. Always wondered why they don't make an injection molded vehicle. Football helmets can take a lot of abuse and it's recyclable.

The Pontiac Fiero and 'real' Saturn cars (before they started putting Saturn Badges on other GM cars) were pretty close to injection molded cars. From https://www.hemmings.com/stories/space-age-space-frame/

Saturn’s uncertain future has prompted a number of editorials about how today’s Saturns are a far cry from the innovative cars that debuted in 1990, those SLs and SCs that featured injection-molded thermoplastic polymer vertical body panels bolted onto a steel space frame by a dimensionally accurate drill-and-pierce system.

Those rustproof, dent-resistant, easily replaced body panels on the first two generations of Saturn cars were their calling card, but that technology was not new; in fact, it was pioneered by GM’s Pontiac division with their 1984-1988 Fiero. While the body panel materials and space frame design may have differed, the Fiero was the car that proved the technology worked.

 

[Sonoran Sam]

Would even consider the inflatable car concept.

This vehicle isn't inflatable, but it is foam... It appears the company tried a 3 wheeler and a 4 wheel version.
Foam Cars

 

[JohnJ]

This vehicle isn't inflatable, but it is foam... It appears the company tried a 3 wheeler and a 4 wheel version.
Foam Cars

Goofy, doesn't begin to describe this car....

 

[dbacksfan81]

The Pontiac Fiero and 'real' Saturn cars (before they started putting Saturn Badges on other GM cars) were pretty close to injection molded cars. From https://www.hemmings.com/stories/space-age-space-frame/

Saturn’s uncertain future has prompted a number of editorials about how today’s Saturns are a far cry from the innovative cars that debuted in 1990, those SLs and SCs that featured injection-molded thermoplastic polymer vertical body panels bolted onto a steel space frame by a dimensionally accurate drill-and-pierce system.

Those rustproof, dent-resistant, easily replaced body panels on the first two generations of Saturn cars were their calling card, but that technology was not new; in fact, it was pioneered by GM’s Pontiac division with their 1984-1988 Fiero. While the body panel materials and space frame design may have differed, the Fiero was the car that proved the technology worked.

Honda was another one that went with injection molding in the early 80's. The original CRX HF had not only injection molded bumpers, it also included the front valance and the front fenders. This helped them get the weight of the car to just over 1800 lbs and an EPA rating of 42MPG City and 51 MPG Highway for the 1.5 litre and 51 MPG City 67 MPG Highway for the 1.3 litre.

 

[Interested]

Honda was another one that went with injection molding in the early 80's. The original CRX HF had not only injection molded bumpers, it also included the front valance and the front fenders. This helped them get the weight of the car to just over 1800 lbs and an EPA rating of 42MPG City and 51 MPG Highway for the 1.5 litre and 51 MPG City 67 MPG Highway for the 1.3 litre.

You guys are thinking too small. The whole vehicle could be molded one shot. GM showed an electric "platform" that the body could be set on. Probably the biggest concern is safety. Afraid a plastic body would easily burn.