And Now... The P5!

[Ty]

Interesting! Sounds consistent with the latest limit before financial penalties potentially start!

I've heard that term "penalties" used quite a bit around here. So, a little question/answer session about the penalties.

What are the penalties for? Will Elio be penalized for not hiring ALL the people? In other words, if they hire 1,499 out of 1,500 people, is there a penalty? Or are the penalties related to production? If Elio doesn't begin production by a certain date, is there a penalty? Define production. If he merely has to "start" production, what does that mean? If he has to hire X number of people by such and such a date, do those people have to actually start work before the date? What if he hires one person just prior to the date and pays them one day salary and then puts them on standby for a couple of months? What if he hires 1,500 people the day before the deadline, pays them all to come in for a safety briefing, and then puts them on unpaid standby till real production begins? Could Elio hire all those people, bring them to a short meeting where they install the wiper blade on one Elio, put them on unpaid leave and still meet the "hire 1,500 people and start production by XX date" requirement?

Lawyers would be involved before any penalty was assessed, I'd bet.

 

[Ekh]

An interesting comment today on Facebook by Elio Motors, maybe a generalization maybe more of a behind the scene timetable? Who knows. But interesting.

View attachment 5918

Well, EM certainly SOUNDS more optimistic these days, and IF they have the money, the timetable sounds possible. But so far, they don't have the money to tool up, finalize supplier contracts, hire folks, etc etc. What they do have is enough money to build at least the P5 and maybe some more of them, and that's a lot better off than they were 3 months ago.

I need my Elio, but I need it before my Forester dies altogether -- or before I do, whichever comes first! So I sure hope all this works out. Come on, DOE!

 

[Johnny Acree]

I've heard that term "penalties" used quite a bit around here. So, a little question/answer session about the penalties.

What are the penalties for? Will Elio be penalized for not hiring ALL the people? In other words, if they hire 1,499 out of 1,500 people, is there a penalty? Or are the penalties related to production? If Elio doesn't begin production by a certain date, is there a penalty? Define production. If he merely has to "start" production, what does that mean? If he has to hire X number of people by such and such a date, do those people have to actually start work before the date? What if he hires one person just prior to the date and pays them one day salary and then puts them on standby for a couple of months? What if he hires 1,500 people the day before the deadline, pays them all to come in for a safety briefing, and then puts them on unpaid standby till real production begins? Could Elio hire all those people, bring them to a short meeting where they install the wiper blade on one Elio, put them on unpaid leave and still meet the "hire 1,500 people and start production by XX date" requirement?

Lawyers would be involved before any penalty was assessed, I'd bet.

Or,, could reasonable people come to a reasonable agreement?
NA! that'll never happen

 

[John Painter]

I've heard that term "penalties" used quite a bit around here. So, a little question/answer session about the penalties.

What are the penalties for? Will Elio be penalized for not hiring ALL the people? In other words, if they hire 1,499 out of 1,500 people, is there a penalty? Or are the penalties related to production? If Elio doesn't begin production by a certain date, is there a penalty? Define production. If he merely has to "start" production, what does that mean? If he has to hire X number of people by such and such a date, do those people have to actually start work before the date? What if he hires one person just prior to the date and pays them one day salary and then puts them on standby for a couple of months? What if he hires 1,500 people the day before the deadline, pays them all to come in for a safety briefing, and then puts them on unpaid standby till real production begins? Could Elio hire all those people, bring them to a short meeting where they install the wiper blade on one Elio, put them on unpaid leave and still meet the "hire 1,500 people and start production by XX date" requirement?

Lawyers would be involved before any penalty was assessed, I'd bet.

The financial penalties are for not hiring and agreed to number of employees Elio Motors made with RACER Trust in order to secure getting the plant in Shreveport which the Trust is responsible for as the entity made responsible by Congress for cleaning up the mess from the GM bankruptcy. The penalties are substantial.

I doubt RACER Trust would go along with anything gimmicky, and PE has certainly said he knows they will not cut him any slack. However whether Elio Motors must have everyone hired or be in the hiring process to satisfy their requirements is unclear to me. Caddo Parish minutes concerning Elio Motors
http://www.caddo.org/index.aspx?NID=426

 

[Ty]

I doubt RACER Trust would go along with anything gimmicky, and PE has certainly said he knows they will not cut him any slack. However whether Elio Motors must have everyone hired or be in the hiring process to satisfy their requirements is unclear to me.

That's all I was getting at though I used outlandish examples to prove my point. Elio could just have the first of 1,500 hired and be "in the process" of hiring more and possibly could meet the requirements. $720,000 a week for 1,500 people at $12/hr (just as a notational amount) not to mention benefits and insurance would be hard to manage without any income for very long... In fact, just that amount of money will take 720 Elios worth of production if they were correct in saying they had $1,000 of profit built into the existing price. It'll take 11 hours of full-rate production to make that payroll!

 

[Jeff Porter]

An interesting comment today on Facebook by Elio Motors, maybe a generalization maybe more of a behind the scene timetable? Who knows. But interesting.

View attachment 5918

Hi John,

Not wanting to come across as rude or saying "no big deal", just offering my observations.

I used to follow EM religiously on Facebook posts, and I saw the same wording as above, posted many times by EM over the past several months. Maybe you're seeing something that I don't, but those are the same words they've stated, it's just the predicted start date of production that has changed over the months.

 

[WilliamH]

I've heard that term "penalties" used quite a bit around here. So, a little question/answer session about the penalties.

What are the penalties for? Will Elio be penalized for not hiring ALL the people? In other words, if they hire 1,499 out of 1,500 people, is there a penalty? Or are the penalties related to production? If Elio doesn't begin production by a certain date, is there a penalty? Define production. If he merely has to "start" production, what does that mean? If he has to hire X number of people by such and such a date, do those people have to actually start work before the date? What if he hires one person just prior to the date and pays them one day salary and then puts them on standby for a couple of months? What if he hires 1,500 people the day before the deadline, pays them all to come in for a safety briefing, and then puts them on unpaid standby till real production begins? Could Elio hire all those people, bring them to a short meeting where they install the wiper blade on one Elio, put them on unpaid leave and still meet the "hire 1,500 people and start production by XX date" requirement?

Lawyers would be involved before any penalty was assessed, I'd bet.

Lawyers are involved in everything. It's why our country is in the state it's in.
All I know is that a penalty for non perform was mentioned relating to around end of first half of '16.
There was a dollar figure mentioned but I can't remember if it was by the day. week, month, or person.
It also mentioned that the penalty was not graved in stone and could be extended based on progress.

William Shakespeare
Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2
Dick the Butcher
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[John Painter]

Hi John,

Not wanting to come across as rude or saying "no big deal", just offering my observations.

I used to follow EM religiously on Facebook posts, and I saw the same wording as above, posted many times by EM over the past several months. Maybe you're seeing something that I don't, but those are the same words they've stated, it's just the predicted start date of production that has changed over the months.

Yup, I agree, sort of. Usually EM is more evasive to the question of when will they start production, giving a "targeting" first half of 2016.

 

[Ty]

Lawyers are involved in everything. It's why our country is in the state it's in.
All I know is that a penalty for non perform was mentioned relating to around end of first half of '16.
There was a dollar figure mentioned but I can't remember if it was by the day. week, month, or person.
It also mentioned that the penalty was not graved in stone and could be extended based on progress.

William Shakespeare
Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2
Dick the Butcher
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

--- Lawyer is the second oldest profession in the world. Funny that both it and the oldest profession screw people for money.

 

[skygazer6033]

I personally think that if Elio is in the process of hiring and training Shreveport personnel when the extension date runs out Racer and Caddo will fold and grant another short extension. Wouldn't make sense to do otherwise. On the otherhand if progress has stopped and nothing is going on at Elio then they would be justified to impose the penalty which I seem to recall is 7.5 million. Which I seem to recall is what Racer paid for the facility in tbe first place.