Send Email To Dop To Show Support For Elio Motors Loan.

[RUCRAYZE]

Actually, I recall someone from Elio saying that only about 3% of the reservations were refundable. The rest were all-in.

Hummmm. 3% seems mighty low, Can't quantify it, but there were "many" ( our board is only about 25k + or- of the 35k +or- on the list, here have expressed that they chose not to risk capital, and have allowed for a refund. difficult to wrap my small head around that only about 12 hundred folks hedged

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

Hummmm. 3% seems mighty low, Can't quantify it, but there were "many" ( our board is only about 25k + or- of the 35k +or- on the list, here have expressed that they chose not to risk capital, and have allowed for a refund. difficult to wrap my small head around that only about 12 hundred folks hedged

I suspect most that are not all in are like me, not in at all for whatever reason.

My reason is simple. I'm not buying (or lining up to buy) a car I haven't seen and driven yet.

There's a million reasons not to be in, only one to be-the Elio itself.

Refundable just doesn't make sense to me. You're either in or you ain't.

 

[tonyspumoni]

I'd like to offer some FAQs I pulled from the DOE ATVM FAQ site (http://energy.gov/lpo/atvm-faqs). I searched this thread for evidence that these had been posted whole and did not see them so if so, forgive my oversight.

HOW WILL THE EVALUATION PROCESS WORK:

The evaluation process will include four steps. In the first step, an application will be reviewed to see if it is substantially complete. If it is not DOE will notify the applicant what additional information it needs to provide DOE. Once an application is substantially complete, in the second step, the applicant and the project will be evaluated to determine if they are eligible for the ATVMIP. If they are not eligible, the application review process will end. If both the applicant and the proposed project are eligible, in the third step, the proposed project will be evaluated, potential terms and conditions of a loan will be developed and a decision will be made whether to make a loan. The fourth and final step is the negotiation and, if the negotiation is successful, the closing of the loan. The entire process will involve dialogue and exchange of information between the applicant and DOE in each step.

DOES A DETERMINATION THAT THE APPLICATION IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLETE MEAN THAT THE DOE HAS DETERMINED THAT THE APPLICANT AND PROJECT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR A LOAN?

No. The determination of substantial completeness is the first step in the review process. Applicant and project eligibility are determined in the second step of the review process.

WHAT IS NEPA?

NEPA is the National Environmental Policy Act, which requires Federal agencies to assess the environmental impact of all major Federal actions significantly affecting the quality of the human environment. The White House Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ) has promulgated NEPA implementing regulations1 that are applicable to all agencies. DOE’s NEPA order2 and regulations3 and DOE’s NEPA Compliance Program[K1] contain implementing procedures that specifically address their programs. The NEPA Flow Chart nicely displays the steps in the NEPA process.

There are three types of review under NEPA: categorical exclusions (CX), environmental assessments (EA), and environmental impact statements (EIS). DOE’s NEPA implementing regulations specify actions that normally require an EIS or an EA, and actions that can be categorically excluded. DOE’s categories of actions identifying CXs, EAs, and EISs are listed in Appendices A, B, C, and D to Subpart D ofDOE’s NEPA rule. An EIS is a detailed analysis of actions presumed to have significant environmental impacts, and is followed by a Record of Decision (ROD). An EA is a concise public document that briefly provides sufficient evidence and analysis for determining whether to make a Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) or prepare an EIS. CX refers to a category of actions which do not individually or cumulatively have a significant effect on the human environment and do not require an EA or EIS. Examples of EAs and EISs can be found on the DOE Office of NEPA Policy and Compliance website athttp://www.gc.energy.gov/NEPA/DOE_NEPA_documents.htm.
1 40 CFR Parts 1500-1508 [http://ceq.hss.doe.gov/Nepa/regs/ceq/toc_ceq.htm]
2 DOE Order 451.1B
3 10 CFR Part 1021

HOW DOES NEPA APPLY TO DOE LOAN GUARNATEES?

DOE’s loan guarantees are considered major Federal actions and are subject to NEPA review. NEPA compliance is integrated into DOE’s Loan Guarantee Program Office (LGPO) decision-making procedures to ensure that environmental impacts are considered throughout the loan guarantee process. The NEPA review must be completed before a loan guarantee can be issued.

 

[Smitty901]

I'd like to offer some FAQs I pulled from the DOE ATVM FAQ site (http://energy.gov/lpo/atvm-faqs). I searched this thread for evidence that these had been posted whole and did not see them so if so, forgive my oversight.

HOW WILL THE EVALUATION PROCESS WORK:

The evaluation process will include four steps. In the first step, an application will be reviewed to see if it is substantially complete. If it is not DOE will notify the applicant what additional information it needs to provide DOE. Once an application is substantially complete, in the second step, the applicant and the project will be evaluated to determine if they are eligible for the ATVMIP. If they are not eligible, the application review process will end. If both the applicant and the proposed project are eligible, in the third step, the proposed project will be evaluated, potential terms and conditions of a loan will be developed and a decision will be made whether to make a loan. The fourth and final step is the negotiation and, if the negotiation is successful, the closing of the loan. The entire process will involve dialogue and exchange of information between the applicant and DOE in each step.

DOES A DETERMINATION THAT THE APPLICATION IS SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLETE MEAN THAT THE DOE HAS DETERMINED THAT THE APPLICANT AND PROJECT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR A LOAN?

No. The determination of substantial completeness is the first step in the review process. Applicant and project eligibility are determined in the second step of the review process.

WHAT IS NEPA?

NEPA is the National Environmental Policy Act, which requires Federal agencies to assess the environmental impact of all major Federal actions significantly affecting the quality of the human environment. The White House Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ) has promulgated NEPA implementing regulations1 that are applicable to all agencies. DOE’s NEPA order2 and regulations3 and DOE’s NEPA Compliance Program[K1] contain implementing procedures that specifically address their programs. The NEPA Flow Chart nicely displays the steps in the NEPA process.

There are three types of review under NEPA: categorical exclusions (CX), environmental assessments (EA), and environmental impact statements (EIS). DOE’s NEPA implementing regulations specify actions that normally require an EIS or an EA, and actions that can be categorically excluded. DOE’s categories of actions identifying CXs, EAs, and EISs are listed in Appendices A, B, C, and D to Subpart D ofDOE’s NEPA rule. An EIS is a detailed analysis of actions presumed to have significant environmental impacts, and is followed by a Record of Decision (ROD). An EA is a concise public document that briefly provides sufficient evidence and analysis for determining whether to make a Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) or prepare an EIS. CX refers to a category of actions which do not individually or cumulatively have a significant effect on the human environment and do not require an EA or EIS. Examples of EAs and EISs can be found on the DOE Office of NEPA Policy and Compliance website athttp://www.gc.energy.gov/NEPA/DOE_NEPA_documents.htm.
1 40 CFR Parts 1500-1508 [http://ceq.hss.doe.gov/Nepa/regs/ceq/toc_ceq.htm]
2 DOE Order 451.1B
3 10 CFR Part 1021

HOW DOES NEPA APPLY TO DOE LOAN GUARNATEES?

DOE’s loan guarantees are considered major Federal actions and are subject to NEPA review. NEPA compliance is integrated into DOE’s Loan Guarantee Program Office (LGPO) decision-making procedures to ensure that environmental impacts are considered throughout the loan guarantee process. The NEPA review must be completed before a loan guarantee can be issued.

And that is what they would like you think. Now back to the real world If the Administration wants it you get the loan f they don't you don't.
And that is that.

 

[tonyspumoni]

Why post all of that? Because it means that hopes of a quick decision by DOE are misplaced. Elio Motors has completed an application - that's it. A determination of eligibility has not been made and it says here that both the applicant AND the project have to be deemed eligible, i.e. it is possible that EM would be considered eligible but the project would not. If both EM and the project are deemed eligible, then there's the review process. The FAQ doesn't say when in this process the NEPA review happens but there would be little reason to do unnecessary work with scant Federal resources, so we can be pretty sure that the NEPA review won't even START until after the application is approved.

 

[tonyspumoni]

And that is what they would like you think. Now back to the real world If the Administration wants it you get the loan f they don't you don't.
And that is that.

Smitty901

I hear you but I gotta diasagree with you. Having been in government I can tell you that the quickest way for a Federal department to get their funding cut or face serious criticism from a hostile Congressional watchdog is to do what you are saying will happen. DOE may "fast track" this, but they will still check off all the boxes and those boxes look like they will take considerable time. It is wish-think to believe that the executive branch is going to pick up the phone and tell DOE to "just approve it already" or, if they try, for DOE to agree.

 

[goofyone]

The way I look at this is that no matter what the details are Elio Motors will either be approved or not. Having read through the DOE information on the ATVM loans, including the law itself, I can say that there is so much wiggle room in there that I can find plenty of reasons to justify both approval or denial of the Elio loan and I am sure this is not an accident.

The best bet anyone can do is enjoy playing with various theories but not get attached to any of them as this is ultimately up to the politicians to decide and then justify their decisions by interpreting the legalese whichever way fits their decision.

 

[tonyspumoni]

We are concerned here with two separate issues. Issue number one - will EM ultimately get an ATVM loan? I believe yes and have said as much on multiple occasions. Issue number two - how long will the process take? It will likely take six months from the time the application was received BEFORE EM gets a wire for $185M. It might take a little less time and could take substantially more. Every required form will need to be completed (a full NEPA review, for example). Every responible federal authority will have to do their job. A real review will be conducted. Someone has to compare the application for both applicant and project to determine if they qualify to be reviewed. Even if every single person involved on the DOE side wants to ruberstamp this, they will adhere to their own rules. If these people were risk tolerant entrepeneurs, they wouldn't be working for DOE now would they?

 

[goofyone]

Personally I believe even six months would be a short time period for the ATVM loan to be approved. While the administration has said they are speeding up the ATVM process my guess as to how long the entire process will take is about 9 months and it could take longer. From the last Town Hall meeting we know EM completed the ATVM application submission in the middle of August so if we are lucky they will get the loan in the spring but it very well could be the summer of 2015. A rejection would likely happen after a few months of the current due diligence phase and also after the current election cycle is sorted out so my guess is for a rejection time frame would be winter or early spring 2015. Of course EM likely has a better idea of how long the process will take and has likely calculated this into their timeline.

Some people are concerned about this time frame however what we have been told is that it will take 4-6 months to get the plant fully operational once they have the money so even if the money arrives in the middle of the year EM could still begin production before the end of 2015 as long as the vehicle and engine are ready to go. Right now EM is doing exactly what they need to be doing which is work on the engine program and soon the vehicle development and testing program which will allow them to enter production as soon as the plant money is lined up and the plant is made ready to go.

The interesting fact is that from where we stand right now it would take a number of months longer to finish developing and testing the engine and vehicle components than it would take to get the plant ready for production.

 

[tonyspumoni]

Some people are concerned about this time frame however what we have been told is that it will take 4-6 months to get the plant fully operational once they have the money so even if the money arrives in the middle of the year EM could still begin production before the end of 2015 as long as the vehicle and engine are ready to go. Right now EM is doing exactly what they need to be doing which is work on the engine program and soon the vehicle development and testing program which will allow them to enter production as soon as the plant money is lined up and the plant is made ready to go.

The interesting fact is that from where we stand right now it would take a number of months longer to finish developing and testing the engine and vehicle components than it would take to get the plant ready for production.

Well I'm glad someone is showing some sense about the timeline for the loan. I was being optimistic when I said 'six months'.

I find it hard to believe they will be able to get the plant up and running in as little as four months though. Hats off to them If they can do it, but I'm hoping their model is to secure enough private equity in 2014 to be fully funded through initial production. If ATVM comes though, so much the better.