P6 ?

[Smitty901]

Is it possible for the Elio to be sold while testing for safety continues? Auto cycle meets motorcycle criteria and Paul exceeds those safety criteria to boost sales later.

I would hope that testing would not hold up production

 

[LGilbert]

I wonder if any of them ( P6 and up ) will be built on the line at Shreveport...........

Of course they won't. They are prototypes testing the production components and crash protection. Elio is not going to open a multi-million dollar facility until the production parts are finalized and their funding is complete. Each 'P' prototype will build on the previous units test results until the final configuration is certified as production. If you read the posts from Elio or listened to Paul's last statements, this was all outlined.

 

[LGilbert]

I would hope that testing would not hold up production

This doesn't make sense. Elio is not going to go into production until the car is fully tested, including crash testing. This isn't a kit car. Crash testing is not a requirement, thus Elio will probably do their own. Unless Elio requests testing by the Insurance Institute, such testing will not occur as Elio is not classified as a car so, even in production, it does not qualify for test. The insurance on the Elio is determined by actuarial tables. Initially, it will be an educated guess by the insurance companies until they have statistical information on crash incidence and repair costs. As the Elio could be totaled for less than the average cost of a front end collision repair and its classification resembles a motorcycle, its insurance costs will be relatively low.

 

[Rickb]

I recall EM's 2015 production schedule statements: The first P would be used to tool up the plant and the following Ps would be used for testing and scheduled ride and drive tours. Did that change? Much crash 'simulation' has been done. Someone posted the latest crash simulations a couple weeks ago. EM should be close to or at the design/engineering freeze stage and should have to crash a minimum of the Ps to determine the actual number of stars earned towards the anticipated five star safety rating.

I am eager to see the Red P5.

 

[Smitty901]

This doesn't make sense. Elio is not going to go into production until the car is fully tested, including crash testing. This isn't a kit car. Crash testing is not a requirement, thus Elio will probably do their own. Unless Elio requests testing by the Insurance Institute, such testing will not occur as Elio is not classified as a car so, even in production, it does not qualify for test. The insurance on the Elio is determined by actuarial tables. Initially, it will be an educated guess by the insurance companies until they have statistical information on crash incidence and repair costs. As the Elio could be totaled for less than the average cost of a front end collision repair and its classification resembles a motorcycle, its insurance costs will be relatively low.

If ELIO does not get their tails in gear and get the thing on the road there will be no ELIO

 

[John Painter]

I recall EM's 2015 production schedule statements: The first P would be used to tool up the plant and the following Ps would be used for testing and scheduled ride and drive tours. Did that change? Much crash 'simulation' has been done. Someone posted the latest crash simulations a couple weeks ago. EM should be close to or at the design/engineering freeze stage and should have to crash a minimum of the Ps to determine the actual number of stars earned towards the anticipated five star safety rating.

I am eager to see the Red P5.

+1

 

[NSTG8R]

May be waaaay off here [I build airplanes, not cars], but if I were going to build 25 "prototypyes", I would use the exact same line and tooling I was going use to produce the production model, and use the prototype's "time in station" and parts placement [assuming motivated workers... we call it cycle time] to move certain tasks to different stations to balance the line so it comes out even [pulse]. I'd use a couple of the finest examples that came off the line as my "show to the public" vehicles, and the ones that didn't come out as desired, for the crash test dummies. The last vehicle would be the performance mules to prove/improve performance and mpg goals. Bugs worked out on the first 12 or so.

...not saying that's how it's going to go down...Just how I'd go about it without going into too much detail.

 

[AriLea]

May be waaaay off here [I build airplanes, not cars], but if I were going to build 25 "prototypyes", I would use the exact same line and tooling I was going use to produce the production model, and use the prototype's "time in station" and parts placement [assuming motivated workers... we call it cycle time] to move certain tasks to different stations to balance the line so it comes out even [pulse]. I'd use a couple of the finest examples that came off the line as my "show to the public" vehicles, and the ones that didn't come out as desired, for the crash test dummies. The last vehicle would be the performance mules to prove/improve performance and mpg goals. Bugs worked out on the first 12 or so.

...not saying that's how it's going to go down...Just how I'd go about it without going into too much detail.

Well, I worked for Boeing at one point. I'll say the production rates are greatly different from aircraft. And QA requirements differ too.

My guess is that the P5 will set a production precidence, and the P25 will have solidified the tooling and process design. But then each tool setup will need to be replicated or put into thier 'on the line' form. The tool replication isn't as much a deal as the Process R&D, IMHO.
In aircraft there is an expected back and forth between trying the actual tooling in production and making adjustments. In high rate auto manufacturing you want to be as close to a final process design before production as you possibly can.

So obvously EM wants to do any back-and-forth during the fabrication of P5 thru 25

 

[pistonboy]

Incidentally, I took the time to look up Paul Elios answer from the July 2 AMA and here it is.
.....................
"PaulElioMotors --------- answering Rog Wild on Reddit
Our casting supplier is Nemak. The process for the engine build is that Comau employees will build the Elio engines on the equipment we purchased from Comau, with Elio employees watching. Then we will flip-flop. Elio employees will build our engines with Comau employees watching, and eventually we will wave them away and say "we've got it from here."

I believe you are correct that the 1,500 employee estimate does not include the engine assembly. That is the vehicle assembly only."
....................
Hope that is helpful
Sorry, I should have included Rog Wild's question so here it is.

........."
RogWild 9 points 3 days ago

Mr. Elio; ref. IAV ENGINES - WHO and WHERE will the Parts for the 500-1,000 Engines (per day) be 'CAST' in order to keep the assembly line running? How will the “Elio Motors Engine Manufacturing Facility” and the regular 'Vehicle Assembly Plant', be able to function at that capacity (one engine/ vehicle per minute) with only 1,200 employees, when the Ford's Brook Park Plant (with 1,200 experienced workers, and a 1,200.000 sq. ft facility) currently only produces 50 EcoBoost engines per hour, running 24/7...... and they are ALL devoted to just making ENGINES!".............

So you know past fanatic and rogwild are the same person?

Check out post 314 in http://elioowners.com/threads/why-the-prototypes-have-to-wait-on-the-engine.5738/page-32

This post is from a moderator who are respected.

 

[WilliamH]

So you know past fanatic and rogwild are the same person?

Check out post 314 in http://elioowners.com/threads/why-the-prototypes-have-to-wait-on-the-engine.5738/page-32

This post is from a moderator who are respected.

I was aware of that, but in the context of the thread I thought I should include all of the information so that we did not have a big argument over where it came from, and so that people who missed Paul's AMA on Reddit would not feel left out in the dark.
The real interesting thing in Paul's answer is the additional people that will be needed at the engine finishing group and that may in fact be the 1200 people that "Roger-Rog-Past" indicated.