Why Elio Is A Gold Mine

[Ekh]

Dustin Hoffman's career advice in The Graduate was "plastics." For Elio Motors, it's "carbon credits."

Federal regulations in effect between now and 2027 require auto manufacturers to meet an increasingly difficult set of standards for emissions and fuel efficiency.

The Big Three hate making small, fuel-efficient cars -- not as much profit in them. But a fleet full of SUVs and muscle cars is not, repeat not, going to meet the standards. So what's a poor car maker like GM to do?
Today, the fleet average for passenger cars needs to be 30 mpg (approximately) increasing to 54.5 mpg (or more) by 2025. To meet this requirement, the Feds give car makers some flexibility and wiggle room.

Different vehicle classes will have different standards, as in this chart:



If a car maker can't do it (or doesn't really want to do it) the Feds provide a way out. This is called "carbon credits." You can learn all about them here: https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/107473/103017.pdf

Basically, car makers can store up, sell, buy or transfer carbon credits, according to a formula shown in the document referenced above.

Enter Elio Motors. With a vehicle that is off the chart -- literally off it -- for mpg and co2 emissions per mile, Elio is a ready source of carbon credits -- if it is recognized as an automobile for this purpose. Motorcycle engines don't qualify. Hence the vital importance of passing autocycle legislation.

Carbon credits could have a monetary value of over $1,000 per vehicle. (I believe it's actually much more than that, but I haven't done the math to prove it). GM needs carbon credits? Elio has them to sell. Plenty of them. Every dollar received for carbon credits is pure profit. To have carbon credits available to sell, Elio only needs to sell cars in quantity, so that its fleet average is proven, and there are enough cars on the road so that there's a reasonable volume of credits available to sell.

So if you're making a car that is profitable on its own AND carries a profit bonus of $1,000, you are looking at a gold mine.

IF Elio can qualify its engine, at full production your annual profit from carbon credits alone could be 250,000 x 1,000, or $250 million annually in pure profit or even higher.

That's why Elio is a potential gold mine. Will they pull this off? I don't know. But if they do, Elio stock will soar, and the company will prosper. And they'll have enough cash coming in to fund future development and expansion.

This is a big game, with huge risks and and even greater reward. Go, Elio!

 

[CompTrex]

Dustin Hoffman's career advice in The Graduate was "plastics." For Elio Motors, it's "carbon credits."

Federal regulations in effect between now and 2027 require auto manufacturers to meet an increasingly difficult set of standards for emissions and fuel efficiency.

The Big Three hate making small, fuel-efficient cars -- not as much profit in them. But a fleet full of SUVs and muscle cars is not, repeat not, going to meet the standards. So what's a poor car maker like GM to do?
Today, the fleet average for passenger cars needs to be 30 mpg (approximately) increasing to 54.5 mpg (or more) by 2025. To meet this requirement, the Feds give car makers some flexibility and wiggle room.

Different vehicle classes will have different standards, as in this chart:

View attachment 11020

If a car maker can't do it (or doesn't really want to do it) the Feds provide a way out. This is called "carbon credits." You can learn all about them here: https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/107473/103017.pdf

Basically, car makers can store up, sell, buy or transfer carbon credits, according to a formula shown int the document referenced above.

Enter Elio Motors. With a vehicle that is off the chart -- literally off it -- for mpg and co2 emissions per mile, Elio is a ready source of carbon credits -- if it is recognized as an automobile for this purpose. Motorcycle engines don't qualify. Hence the vital importance of passing autocycle legislation.

Carbon credits could have a monetary value of over $1,000 per vehicle. (I believe it's actually much more than that, but I haven't done the math to prove it). GM needs carbon credits? Elio has them to sell. Plenty of them. Every dollar received for carbon credits is pure profit. To have carbon credits available to sell, Elio only needs to sell cars in quantity, so that it's fleet average is proven, and there are enough cars on the road so that there's a reasonable volume of credits available to sell.

So if you're making a car that is profitable on its own AND carries a profit bonus of $1,000, you are looking at a gold mine.

IF Elio can qualify its engine, at full production your annual profit from carbon credits alone could be 250,000 x 1,000, or $250 million annually in pure profit or even higher.

That's why Elio is a potential gold mine. Will they pull this off? I don't know. But if they do, Elio stock will soar, and the company will prosper. And they'll have enough cash coming in to fund future development and expansion.

This is a big game, with huge risks and and even greater reward. Go, Elio!

Agreed, Carbon Credits is the way to go.
[Edit] I mean CAFE Credits. I don't know if they are interchangeable or not.

 

[Ekh]

Here's a small, seditious thought -- would making the single rear wheel on the Elio into a double -- same wheel, only two of them right next to each other -- reclassify it as a 4-wheel car? You'd have to offset the rear axle a bit, and it might not be as easy to do as it looks -- but, if you want to sell carbon credits, that might be the way to go.

 

[CompTrex]

Here's a small, seditious thought -- would making the single rear wheel on the Elio into a double -- same wheel, only two of them right next to each other -- reclassify it as a 4-wheel car? You'd have to offset the rear axle a bit, and it might not be as easy to do as it looks -- but, if you want to sell carbon credits, that might be the way to go.

Yeah, but what about the HUGE flood of regulations that need to now be addressed? Back-up cameras, distance between headlights, emissions, etc, etc. All the things that making the Elio an autocycle benefited from?

 

[Sethodine]

I know it is/was one of those experimental technologies that probably will never see the light of day, but...

If the big automakers want to make fuel-efficient SUVs, then what about that Stirling/Electric hybrid SUV that one dude in Texas was experimenting with? He was claiming it would do 100mpg. I don't see that as being outside the realm of possibility for the deep pockets of the likes of Toyota, GM, etc.

 

[wizard of ahs]

Been done, but scrapped

http://infohouse.p2ric.org/ref/16/15287.pdf

 

[acamara]

I know it is/was one of those experimental technologies that probably will never see the light of day, but...

If the big automakers want to make fuel-efficient SUVs, then what about that Stirling/Electric hybrid SUV that one dude in Texas was experimenting with? He was claiming it would do 100mpg. I don't see that as being outside the realm of possibility for the deep pockets of the likes of Toyota, GM, etc.

I am actually considering a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV which has been a very popular SUV in Europe but not yet a vailable in North America.

They are shooting for the Summer of 2017.

It can operate under 3 modes. Pure EV for about 30mph, Hybrid for 46 to 50 mph combined and ICE with option to charge Battery when driving on Hwy and approaching city so EV can be used again.

I think they say mpge is around 95.

It has 2 electric motors one front with 2L ICE and a rear one for true option of 4wd when needed.. can't recall elec motor size at the moment and use use a modular 12kwh li-io Battery.

Sure hope they increase it to 16kwh battery when ships stateside

Edit:

My apologies for being a bit off topic but with most automakers going EV and Hybrid the push for more PHEV may may start to reduce the Carbon print.. be it ever so so slow.

My point and getting back on topic as Ekh rightfully me tioned is that this may be the ideal time for Elio to come in and fill that void for a high miles per gal vehicle.

 

[Ekh]

This Thread is about carbon credits, not about alternative power sources for SUVs. The point is that Elio is sitting on a gold mine. My initial post is an attempt to explain a little bit about how carbon credits work. I'd appreciate it if this thread got back on topic although I know it's probably hopeless.

 

[Sethodine]

Been done, but scrapped

http://infohouse.p2ric.org/ref/16/15287.pdf

Looking at that design, they were taking a more traditional Hybrid approach (like the Gen 1 Insight), where the machine could operate in Electric, Hybrid, or ICE-only modes.

The newer one uses a NASA-designed Stirling engine purely as a generator, more like a modern PHEV (Chevy Volt). This has to do with better battery and electric motor technology being available today, such that the electric motor can be used across the entire accelleration spectrum.

This Thread is about carbon credits, not about alternative power sources for SUVs. The point is that Elio is sitting on a gold mine. My initial post is an attempt to explain a little bit about how carbon credits work. I'd appreciate it if this thread got back on topic although I know it's probably hopeless.

Well, the big automakers using newer technology has much to do with whether or not they even need to buy carbon credits. But I get your point. Page 1 is too soon for the thread to be entirely de-railed

As to Elio and selling "carbon credits"... These are the very same CAFE credits that EM would love to sell, but currently motorcycles/autocycles do not qualify under the CAFE program. They are neither restricted by CAFE, nor are they able to sell excess credits. If the rules change and autocylces fall under CAFE, then Elio has already stated that they plan on selling credits. In-fact, I believe it was Fiat-Chrysler who approached Elio about buying credits, should they be regulated into the program at a future date.

 

[Ekh]

Looking at that design, they were taking a more traditional Hybrid approach (like the Gen 1 Insight), where the machine could operate in Electric, Hybrid, or ICE-only modes.

The newer one uses a NASA-designed Stirling engine purely as a generator, more like a modern PHEV (Chevy Volt). This has to do with better battery and electric motor technology being available today, such that the electric motor can be used across the entire accelleration spectrum.



Well, the big automakers using newer technology has much to do with whether or not they even need to buy carbon credits. But I get your point. Page 1 is too soon for the thread to be entirely de-railed

As to Elio and selling "carbon credits"... These are the very same CAFE credits that EM would love to sell, but currently motorcycles/autocycles do not qualify under the CAFE program. They are neither restricted by CAFE, nor are they able to sell excess credits. If the rules change and autocylces fall under CAFE, then Elio has already stated that they plan on selling credits. In-fact, I believe it was Fiat-Chrysler who approached Elio about buying credits, should they be regulated into the program at a future date.

Yep. As my initial post clearly states, motorcycle engines do not qualify, and either the engine or the vehicle must be reclassified for CC to work for them.